Why President Benson was right: "No True Latter-day Saint Can Be a Socialist"
Recently I have been getting a lot of nasty messages on my Facebook page for sharing so many talks and quotes from President Ezra Taft Benson. Members were accusing me of trying to 'sway the elections.' or saying that 'your blog has become too political.' I want to address those two issues and the quote that really upset a lot of people as it has shown me that many of the members are either ignorant of the doctrine or have been deceived by Satan. Here is the quote that started it all: "No true Latter-day Saint can be a Communist or a Socialist because Communist principles run counter to the revealed word of God." Ezra Taft Benson (GC: Oct. 1961, click HERE to read it or HERE to listen to it)
My goal today is to explain this quote. First I will address why members fall for socialism and secondly why it is wrong. This is a non-political post, I am not talking about political parties, but rather ideologies. I've written about politics before, and how God is neither a Republican nor Democrat (Click here for that article), today I am simply focusing on eternal truths and principles as taught by the Prophets and Apostles on the topic of Socialism and Communism.
First, members fall For Socialism because it is a close counterfeit to the United Order.
Satan is a master at counterfeits because they are so similar to the truth he can deceive even the very elect. President Joseph F. Smith taught, “Satan is a skillful imitator, and as genuine gospel truth is given the world in ever-increasing abundance, so he spreads the counterfeit coin of false doctrine. Beware of his spurious currency, it will purchase for you nothing but disappointment, misery and spiritual death.” And President Ezra Taft Benson taught, "Whenever the God of heaven reveals His gospel to mankind, Satan, the archenemy to Christ, introduces a counterfeit….Communism introduced into the world a substitute for true religion. It is a counterfeit of the gospel plan."
What is socialism a counterfeit of? It is a counterfeit of the United Order.
What is the United Order?
In the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord outlines a plan to take care of the poor and establish Zion. In a Nutshell, anyone who wanted to join the United Order could, when joining they would covenant to live the law of consecration and give everything they owned to the Church. The Church would then deed to each member of the Order according to their needs and wants. Each year you would give your surplus that you did not need to the Church and they would use it to take care of the poor. Anyone was free to join or leave the United Order at any time. William O. Nelson in the January 1979 Ensign explained it this way:
The United Order operates under the principle of private ownership and individual management. It is neither communal nor communistic. Each man owns his own property with an absolute title. The individual family is preserved. There is no common table… The United Order, according to Elder Harold B. Lee, is “more capitalistic … than either Socialism or Communism, in that private ownership and individual responsibility will be maintained.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1941, p. 113)
It is very important to note that the Lord revoked living the United Order. Whereas we still covenant to live the Law of Consecration in the temple, we currently only practice the Law of Tithes and Offerings. The Church's Welfare Program is how The Church currently administers to the poor.
How is Socialism a counterfeit to the United Order?
We are commanded repeatedly in every book of scripture and by every prophet to take care of the poor. We covenant to do so at Baptism, and we are told if we fail to do so, we will be rejected by Christ at the last day. Socialism, like the United Order, promises to take care of the poor. Satan tricks many members by showing them the scriptures regarding the poor needing to be succored and then mingles the philosophies of men that unless we enact social reform and the government steps in, the poor will not be taken care of.
This mingling the doctrines of men with scriptures is called socialism. And it relies on a Satanic belief that the ends justify the means. This spiritually damning philosophy led to the War in Heaven. Think about the War in Heaven, both Satan's and Heavenly Father's plan had the same goal, the exaltation of all of God's children. The difference between their plans was the means. For Satan's Plan, the ends justified the means, therefore taking away agency, and forcing people to do 'what was right' was an acceptable cost.
But God, in His wisdom understood that the ends do not justify the means. But rather the means sanctify and qualify us for the ends. God's plan was not simply to get from A to B at wherever cost, yes we needed a body, yes we needed to return to heaven, but we also needed experiences that only agency would allow. If Satan's plan was implemented, it would've robbed us of those experiences and not even produced the results that he promised it would.
President Russell M. Nelson has emphasized that the means matter and that we need to do things the Lord's way, he taught, "I repeat the Lord’s prescription: 'But it must needs be done in mine own way'! We begin where we are, now, and work according to his plan."
We have also been warned by Howard W. Hunter what will happen if we do not choose the Lord's way, “If man will not recognize the inequalities around him and voluntarily, through the gospel plan, come to the aid of his brother, he will find that through “a democratic process” he will be forced to come to the aid of his brother. The government will take from the “haves” and give to the “have nots.” Both have lost their freedom. Those who “have,” lost their freedom to give voluntarily of their own free will and in the way they desire. Those who “have not,” lost their freedom because they did not earn what they received. They got “something for nothing,” and they will neither appreciate the gift nor the giver of the gift."
(The Law of the Harvest, BYU, 8 March 1966).
Socialism is Satan's plan on earth. Just as proposed in heaven it would rob us of our agency and force us to do what was deemed right. All under the guise of it being acceptable to the Lord! The First Presidency issued the following official statement on this issue, “Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to the united order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which Satan always devises of the gospel plan…. Latter-day Saints cannot be true to their faith and lend aid, encouragement, or sympathy to any of these false philosophies. They will prove snares to their feet.” Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., David O. McKay, (Conference Report, April 1942, p. 90)
Another amazing resource on this topic is this address given by Marion G. Romney. It was so powerful that he was asked by the brethren to give it again a month later in General Conference!
Why Socialism is wrong: The Means Qualify Us For Exaltation.
Not only do the means matter because the Lord has said so, but they also matter because they qualify us for exaltation. Marion G. Romney emphasized the importance of the means when in the Oct 1981 general conference he taught, "The Lord doesn’t really need us to take care of the poor. He could take care of them without our help if it were his purpose to do so… It would be a simple thing for the Lord to reveal to President [Nelson] where the deposits of oil and precious ores are. We could then hire someone to dig them out and we could float in wealth—and we would float in wealth right down to Hades. No, the Lord doesn’t really need us to take care of the poor, but we need this experience; for it is only through our learning how to take care of each other that we develop within us the Christlike love and disposition necessary to qualify us to return to his presence."
Marion G. Romney also taught a year later, in Oct 1982 general conference, "Service is not something we endure on this earth so we can earn the right to live in the celestial kingdom. Service is the very fiber of which an exalted life in the celestial kingdom is made." From these two quotes, we learn that the ends do not justify the means, but rather the means qualify us for eternal life. We learn that even if Satan's plan had been enforced either in heaven, or as Socialism on earth, we would not gain the promised results.
A Prophetic Warning:
Returning to where we have started. We now see that in Heaven Satan tried to force people to do what he deemed right. We know that Socialism is the earthly manifestation of that plan that led a third of the host of heaven to eternal damnation. It is with that understanding that with 100% clear confidence that I can again echo the words of Ezra Taft Benson, "No true Latter-day Saint can be a Communist or a Socialist because Communist principles run counter to the revealed word of God."
If you have supported socialism because you were ignorant, now you know the truth. If you have supported socialism because you were deceived, now you know the folly of your ways. Finally, if you have/do support socialism even after this knowledge, then I call on you to repent before it is too late! In the words of Ezra Taft Benson, "As important as are all other principles of the gospel, it was the freedom issue which determined whether you received a body. To have been on the wrong side of the freedom issue during the war in heaven meant eternal damnation. How then can Latter-day Saints expect to be on the wrong side in this life and escape the eternal consequences? The war in heaven is raging on earth today. The issues are the same: 'Shall men be compelled to do what others claim is for their best welfare' or will they heed the counsel of the prophet and preserve their freedom?"
For more quotes on Socialism and Communism, see this collection of over 50 quotes from more than 10 different Apostles and Prophets!
You know, for the most part, I have loved your writing. Very uplifting and very spiritual. But not this time. I have work with and baptized when I served my mission in Argentina some 60 years ago, man and women who were Socialists. People who loved the Gospel and practice the teachings of the Savior, and men who honored the priesthood. Every time when it gets around election time, everyone rails on thos who are the Democrats, those with liberal ideas, or those who lean a little or a lot toward the left. There are those in these categories who are good people and good members of the church. They are just hardwired a little different. I came from a strong Democrat family. Both my parents were good members of the church. They never ever went against the testimony of the Prophet Joesph Smith nor ever denied the teachings from the Book of Mormon nor the Doctrine and Covenants. I remember a discussion that I had with President Benson’s brother. Finding that I was raised in Mississippi, he asked me that I must like a particular US senator. I said I did not. He had the reputation of forcing blacks to work on his so called plantation. My family believed in the Civil Rights Movement and this Senator was squarely against allowing Blacks the right and freedom to vote. Present Bensons brother told me that this Senator was a good friend of the Bensons and his political views were very similar to theirs. I said, see we are both strong members of the Church, yet can have different political views. I love President Ezra Taft Bension. He was and is indeed the Prophet of God. But when it comes to political views, I am sorry, but I did not always agreed with him. So, do not call good members of church who have left leaning views bad people. Many of our Latin American and African members have Socialist views. They are absolutely are wonderful people. Let us not loose these people because they have different political viewpoints when we all have the same strong testimony of this church. Thank you for allowing me to blow off some steam. I kno that I will probably put down for my beliefs, but it will not be the first time since I came to Utah to teach at an invitation to come to BYU. I never ever said anything negative about the church. I bore my testimony often of all things truthful. I never ever brought up politely views in my classroom. I was hired to tie in the principals of the Gospel with my course work. By the way, for a number of years, I was the faculty representative of the BYU Democrats. Wonderful kids! Not an evil bone amongst them. God Bless. George “Skip” Chilcoat
George, you have attacked the messengers but not the message. I did not tell you how to vote. I did not tell you Democrats are bad. I have many friends who are Democrats who are good Latter-day Saints. This post was purely about Socialism and that multiple prophets and apostles have taught that socialism and the principles behind it are wrong.
Rebuttal the principles outlined if you dislike the post and disagree with the quote. But simply saying you disagree because you disagree with the messenger and attacking his credibility is not a valid form of dialog.
It seems pretty harsh to judge whether or not someone is a true Latter Day Saint! Pretty sure that’s the Lord’s job. (Through the help of Bishops in certain situations right?) I’m tired of hearing both sides of the political spectrum within the church using this line. In my opinion more than ever as a church what we need is unity, we have more important things to do that trying to illigitemize members who have different views. Just some things on my mind. I wonder how many faithful members of the church are living in countries with more socialist leaning governments than ours (I haven’t done a lot of research, but I think many in Europe are) who feel happy with and support their governments. I wonder if it’s an ethnocentric world view to see things this way. I’ve been thinking a lot about how we have been very engrained with fear on this subject as Americans. (thinking back to the red scares, and how that was during Ezra Taft Benson’s lifetime) I don’t think fear is a good tactic at all, and Elder Uchtdorf has spoken to this as well.
Katelyn, you are right, it is the Lord's job. And The LORD HAS SPOKEN through His servants and has condemned those who push for satan's plan of salvation on earth. And it is not Benson alone, multiple prophets and apostles have decried these gospel counterfeits.
What it comes down to it the Lord spoke through His anointed servants. Now when God disagrees with your politics you either change your politics or your politics become your God. Too many socialist members of the church do the later.
@Katelyn, having served a mission in a post communistic country I can tell you that none of the members enjoyed what communism had to bring. They had to preform their baptisms under the threat of death, do their sacrament meetings in secret and trust very few with the few copies of the Book of Mormon they had. You can read about these post communistic countries in the gospel library app.
Jeremy, please I had no desire to attack your credibility. I believe almost every thing you have written . You are a spiritual giant. I have a testimony of the United Order. I simply do not think socialism is evil. Ok? I simply know those who have professed socialism who were (I assume a number of my baptisms have passed on to the next step toward eternal life) and are good members of the Church. Just saying. I have some different opinions, ok. I believe eve that all kinds of people with all kinds of beliefs are welcome in the Lord’s church. By the way, Elder Hugh B. Brown was’nt too keen about then Elder Bension’s political beliefs. If you look at the general conference during the 50s and early 60s, you will see both me n giving talks toward each other. Both men were excellent men and we’re equally wonderful servants of the Church. I love both. I had the privilege of meeting President Brown on two occasions and Elder Benson three times. Twice as an Apostle and once as President of the Church. Both men were funny and they were serious. We are very lucky to have such wonderful leadership in these latter days. Son, like I said, I am not trying to pick a fight with you nor challenge your credibility. In fact, I didn’t think I was even trying to debate the issue. I was just trying to give a different opinion that’s all. My God bless you. I look forward to reading your next blog. George “Skip” Chilcoat
"So, do not call good members of church who have left leaning views bad people."
1. Is it a left leaning view that mothers may choose to murder their unborn children?
2. Is it a left leaning view that unborn children are not children at all, but clumps of cells?
3. Is it a left leaning view that homosexuality, or any use of the procreative power is acceptable?
4. Is it a left leaning view that property should taken from one by compulsory means and given to another?
5. Is it a left leaning view that a black person cannot be racist and a white person is always racist?
I don't remember anyone saying that one who held these views was a "bad person". Just that they could not in good conscience call themselves a Latter Day Saint. And I might add, much less a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.
@Dan, you missed the point of a person believing these things versus allowing others to choose these things for themselves. Is it your contention that all scripture be made law? If so I hope you don’t enjoy lobster.
Excellent article Jeremy. Many times the issue is not socialism, abortion, same sex marriage... It is whether or not one believes that God speaks "through His servants, the prophet"... left or right leaning politics do not negate truth, revelation and eternal principles and accountability. Wonderful LDS members can be decieved and are, many times.
One correction. All the mentions of deceiving the very elect, have the preface - "If possible" Giving the thought that it is not possible to deceive the very elect. We need to have the more sure word and we do.
Are you saying it's okay to follow Trump?
This post has nothing to do with the 2020 election.
Great article! I did have to laugh, though, when I read the following "... they would covenant to live the law of concentration." I think you meant "consecration" - probably autocorrect that was at fault. Yes, it all comes down to giving up our agency with the social programs that are constantly being introduced, and supported, by not only our elected leaders but also the general public.
Jeremy and friends, I was accused of starting a debate and doing a very lousy job of it. All I was doing was having a conversation That ELDER Bebson’s very conservative approach about politics and idea that Socialist were are are bad people. I the discussed the fact that on my mission 60 years ago in Argentina, I had converted a number of Socialist and some left leaning men and women who become members of the Church. Brethren, I love President Benson and raised my hand to the square to support him as the Prophet Of God. And if he said this or that, I did what he wanted we as members were to do. Just the same as what President Nielsen wants me and all of us to obey the commandments of Our Heavenly Father. I have never denied this Church. And I hope I never will. My goal is to keep and continue to keep the commandments of my Heavenly Father and of his servants, and endure to the end. My God bless all you wonderful brothers. I bear my testimony of the truthfulness of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, of Joesph Smith as the Prophet of the Restoration, and of the most wonderful and the most important book on this earth, the Book of Mormon, an other testimony of Jesus Christ. Amen, bothers, Amen. I am done. You will not hear from me again. George “Skip” Chilcoat
'It seems pretty harsh to judge whether or not someone is a true Latter Day Saint! Pretty sure that’s the Lord’s job.'
The Prophet speaks for God, if you are going against what the Prophet has told you, then you are not a true Latter Day Saint, not because I or anyone else judged you as so, but because you are going against God, that seems pretty self-explanatory.
The guy who wrote this made it crystal clear that you are going against the Prophet's teachings, and thereby God's teachings, by refusing to accept the teaching that Socialism is evil and created by the Devil, yet all the comments here are of people who refuse to accept that.
How can you call yourself a Latter Day Saint when you deny the teachings of the Prophet and God? That's pretty self explanatory, you have embraced wickedness and need to repent.
What posts like this one quoting President Benson on socialism always miss is this: what did President Benson mean by “socialism”? How was it defined in his era? What was the context of socialism then? And how, if at all, has this changed in the last 50 years? It seems there isn’t a clear, agreed upon definition of what socialism today is.
100% disagree, Marion G. Romney outlined what socialism was, and how the basic principles are gospel counterfeits, in his talk https://www.facebook.com/1481293402183632/videos/1052844755149691
where does the quote From Pres. Benson come from that states not being a good mormon if you choose democrat or socialist?
Where is this referenced from . I need to find the source in the form of document. From a speech he gave? an interview?
or was it just a personal anecdote some one says he said?
A talk, 38:45 is when he says it. Although he starts addressing the issue at about 21:40 https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/ezra-taft-benson/four-fold-hope/
WOW. Jeremy well said. I understand everything you said and have always agreed with it all. thank you so much for explaining this issue so well. It comes down to free agency, a gift of God to mankind. it’s God’s eternal plan. Thank you Jeremy!!!!!
"--- whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." Ezra Taft Benson was / is a servant of the Lord - He said it, I believe it, that settles it.
Thank you for writing this and compiling these quotes! You nailed it.
Thank you, Jeremy, for speaking the truth about Socialism. The fact that Socialism=Satan's plan is, I think, one of the simplest truths. Yet, today, it is cloaked better than ever, misleading many Americans who, of all people on earth, should understand the importance of agency and Freedom. Anyone, LDS or not, who thinks Socialism is worth trying, isn't being honest with himself and is allowing himself to be deceived. We all need to speak out against Socialism and stand for individual rights and Freedom.
Jeremy,
I read your article and agree.
I was hoping you could help me find the source I read many years ago about a byu prof who gave his incoming freshman a quiz about socialism. And discovered the majority leaned that way. I recently found a byui prof on you tube doing the same thing with the same result but can not recall or find him again either( getting older)
Thanks in advance,
,I seem to recall the source either ETB OR VERLAND ANDERSON or J.R.CLARK. THE PROF AT BYUI was recent and it slipped my mind
Lon
Thanks for the comment Lon, unfortunately I have heard these stories as well, but I am unaware of the source material.
(Late to the party!) Regarding people living in other countries: The 12th Article of Faith teaches that we obey the laws of our country. If one lives in a socialist or communist country, that does not necessarily mean they prefer a socialist or communist lifestyle - just that it is the law in their country and what they have grown up with. I do not believe Jeremy is condemning them.
President Benson beside being a beloved prophet, he was such a great patriot that has taught us much. Thank you for this fabulous article. I love following your posts on Facebook and reading your blog posts. You are doing more good than you know.
Thankyou so much for this article. I have enjoyed it and I appreciate the other comments too. I am not American but somehow became more interested in American politics more when Donald Trump came into the Presidency. Somehow I was drawn to him but found it quite hard to view my like for him as a leader, and president because I was not around many people that were pro Trump.So I have relied entirely on the spirit of discernment to help me decide whether I was going to watch him through his term or listen to all of those around me. I decided to follow him and Im so glad I did. I totally agree that you cannot be a socialist or communist and know that it is Gods will. It just feels evil. I found all the words of the prophets on this and I also received my own personal witness that Donald Trump will become a member of the church as I did many years before feeling he would become the President. When we had our elections last year our Prime Minister a member but not active in the church. who has verbally denounced her membership won the elections for a 2nd term. I read her party terms and policies and there was no way I could choose her party based on pro-abortion and euthanasia. We put this on our Facebook pages on behalf of the church communications and believe many members still voted her in. Perhaps because they know her family Im not really sure. At the end of the day, we can either hear the words of the prophets or not. That's the whole purpose of free agency. We make our own choices and take responsibility for them. My personal feelings is that I feel you are correct on what you are saying. The new Biden administration are in my opinion going down the socialist/ communist road. They are getting more game at bringing out their corruption compared to democrats in past administrations. Fortunately through the prophet Joseph Smith the revelation on the church members saving the constitution when it is hanging by a thread will save the country from this corrupt form of leadership. Time is running out and Satan in his desperation is moving things along.
. Regards
I thought this was a great article and very insightful, but could not help noticing 2 errors.
1-There was only one plan. Satan did not come up with an alternate plan, he simply wanted the glory. I can see how that could still apply to socialism in that the 'glory' or credit would be misdirected toward the government instead of the individual due to the absence of agency. Nevertheless, there was only 1 plan.
2- Whether socialism is evil or not, you are quoting dead apostles to back your claims. The current living leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have asked its members to seek unity, heal the political division, root out racism and champion faith over fear. If we are to follow the counsel of our current leaders to seek unity, it is best to be humble and understand you can still learn things from those with different ideologies.
Dallin H Oaks said “Those who govern their thoughts and actions solely by the principles of liberalism or conservatism or intellectualism cannot be expected to agree with all of the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ. As for me, I find some wisdom in liberalism, some wisdom in conservatism, and much truth in intellectualism—but I find no salvation in any of them.”
I know you may never view socialism as anything other than evil, but those who advocate for it tend to be more actively pursuing the welfare and betterment of their brethren than those who oppose it. For instance, it is not just one ideology that believes in helping the poor and feeding the hungry, but they have different methods for accomplishing that. By coming together and understanding opposing views, I believe the Lord will bless us with revelation on how we can proceed...together.
Great article. Good writing, good explanation, but it’s missing a lot. Let’s be honest, can extreme capitalism be a danger just as extreme socialism? I believe we must have a conservative mind and a liberal heart. Our Country has been able to mature in a pattern of social and capitalistic ideals. They go together! I understand why president benson would say your mentioned quote, because socialism is a prerequisite to communism. But for so long it have been kept in check by our conservative brothers and sisters, and our liberal brothers and sisters have kept them in check. I’d love to see you write an article about capitalism and how it can also be a danger. The church doesn’t care what your political views are, nor does God. They do care that you love God, love your neighbor like yourself. They care about your desire to return to Them. They care about your commitment to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. Focus your articles more on how it ties into living the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Spirit will always be present. I do appreciate this article because it has helped me see things differently. Thank you
Well said! Satan really didn't want the rest of us to have eternal life. He wanted everything for himself!
A necessary component to learning to become like our Savior is Agency.
Wow - What a discussion! But I think the comments get to the essence of it in the end...
I don't think anyone really tried to define socialism at the start. Is it to forcefully take from one person and give to to another? Or is it to provide an environment of equality where everyone has opportunity for growth and gain, regardless of their current circumstances?
Certainly I can't support the 1st definition, but can the second.
In the end isn't it more about how it's achieved and principles applied?
I love the quote from Joseph Smith - "I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves." Isn't this what it's all about - not right or left, but applying true principles that make ourselves, our neighbours and countries, better off spiritually, physically, emotionally and intellectually?
In the end we are all "our brother's keeper" and need to apply true principles to implement that part of our discipleship.
Jer, Aside from your strong reliance on the credentials of your sources, you still managed a strong logical argument. And your disciplined rebuttals held strictly to your thesis. But there was one area you could have strengthen your argument a little more. To demonstrate this I like to fall back on Abraham Lincoln's quote from a speech he gave in the Lincoln-Douglas debates on Oct 15, 1858 in Clinton, IL:
“It is the eternal struggle between these two principles — right and wrong — throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity, and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You toil and work and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.”
Socialism/Communism is just slavery repackaged to slick market to modern voters. Some say chattel slavery cannot be compared to socialism/communism because they do not have the component of ownership of another. But Lincoln never mentions ownership of another. He does refer to feudal serfdom/slavery. Feudal slavery did not involve the sale of serfs. The idea that equity is being forcefully removed from one class to another is the evil in both slavery and socialism/communism, and in which direction the equity is flowing is irrelevant.
Charity (free agency) is not a part of socialism/communism. From Corinthians: "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity." If charity is replaced by forced redistribution of equity, then the greatest of these gospel principles has been removed from the Christian formula for salvation.
Given the commonalities of socialism to slavery, I don't see that the advocates of socialism have learned one iota of morality from the Civil War. And Honestly, the same political persuasion that supported slavery in the antebellum world is the same political persuasion that is supporting socialism today. The objective of social engineering (socialism) is deny the Right of Self-Determination from both the beneficiaries and the benefactors. This is the removal of free agency from our lives. That is also called tyranny. What genius would hop on that band wagon in their daily life? There are millions that have signed up for that cause here in America alone. I'm not judging any person or group to be good or bad. I am judging the ideology alone. If anyone feels guilt by association with an idea that is obviously wrong or morally bankrupt, that is not my fault. That is all on them.
I see a lot of people here who think socialisms will work or any of its principles. What they dont actually realize is that not a single President of the Church has ever supported them. We had a president of the Church already tell us his feelings about it. When Christ will come in his glory, some of us will be surprised to know that he wont ever have any principles of socialism invested in his government. Who ever things that socializing everything or some is a good thing and state that the people are happy. every time social welfare used to pay for stuff, the quality goes down and the less competition there is. Go look at public schools for example.
The answer to crony Capitalism is the principles of righteousness. It takes righteousness to have a better capitalist system. With helping the poor, it wont ever be done through the forced distribution of wealth but by the Lords way of helping the por. Through the law of Consecration and everyone *choosing to lift one another burdens. We call this, one heart and one mind. It will never be achieved through government distribution the wealth. All that socialism is and the principles of socialism, is to take away the agency and civil liberties away through government and democratic process.
I agree with your comments overall. And, in response to JMFELTS comment that you are supporting your claim through dead apostles I would say that the First Presidency has come out in several times to warn us of the dangers of socialism and that we shouldn't support it I would call to mind that Joseph Smith, Isaiah, Peter, John, Moroni, etc. are also dead but that doesn't diminish the truth of their words.
While we are counseled to vote for good people as leaders, it's important to bear in mind that when we vote for a person, we are also voting for the political positions of their party. That person may be upright, honest and humble, but voting for them indirectly votes for others whose values are in direct opposition to the Gospel's teachings.
An example: Orrin Hatch was elected in 1976, the same year my wife and I were married. One of his main campaign promises was to only serve 2 terms, and he made it a point that Frank Moss, a 3 term Senator should be called home.
Orrin did well overall in his early years, but at some point he started to become part of the Washington Establishment and ended up staying in the Senate for over 40 years..
Pete Ashdown, a Democrat, ran against Orrin towards the end of Orrin's time in the Senate. I seriously considered voting for Pete due to an email exchange I had with him where he expressed conservative views on abortion, the 2nd Amendment, gay marriage, etc. However, I realized that if I voted for Pete, and Democrats gained a majority in the Senate, all the leadership positions in the various committees (where the real work of the senate takes place) would go to Democrats like Chuck Schumer and Diane Feinstein, not Pete. The Senate majority leadership would be held by Harry Reid who had turned from his previous conservative positions on abortion, gay marriage, etc. to those of the Obama Administration. Harry, (also a Latter-day Saint), even boasted of how his spreading a lie about Mitt Romney's not paying taxes helped to defeat Mitt's bid for the Presidency.
And, if I were a member of any political party or organization whose basic platform or views are in opposition to the teachings of the Gospel, I couldn't answer that I wasn't a member of or supported groups whose teachings are in conflict with the Church.
A final word--I would say that it isn't up to anyone to call another to repentance unless you are that person's priesthood leader, even if they have committed truly grave sins or transgressions. Certainly they should be counseled and encouraged to change, but any effort to do so should be done in a spirit of love, not condemnation.
So very sad to read the comments of so many who don’t get it. It can also - very accurately said - that no true member of the Church can be a leftist/progressive/liberal, etc., at the same time; one is God’s plan, the other plan is authored by Satan. That’s a FACT for all you deluded, deceived members. Spencer W. Kimball is known for saying that facts are not changed by the opinions of men.
Political correctness, yet another tool of Satan, is rampant in the Church today; both among it’s members, and leaders alike.
Free agency is one of the greatest gifts we’ve been given, but for all those here advocating socialism and communism in all it’s forms; (liberals/progressives/Democrats/etc.) and deceived into believing that they’re justified, need to know you’re free to have your opinion, but not free to be correct in it. That only happens when you actually are correct.
I am curious to know exactly how those leaders defined socialism. I have been taught that socialism and other left-leaning economic policies have meant things like a decent minimum wage, the 40-hour workweek, child labor laws and not commodifying necessities like health care or education. I see nothing wrong or evil about any of those principles. Without laws like those, workers suffer and, without proper funds or benefits, they cannot escape poverty or do important things like raising a family. The neoliberal capitalism that has been in the U.S. since the Reagan years has been ruining lives and families. The cost of living has increased exponentially (to the point of forcing many to be homeless) while wages have risen marginally at best, education is so expensive that many people are still in more than 20 years after graduation, over half of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford a surprise $400 expense, plus medical bills have bankrupted countless individuals. Then, most of the money is funneled to a select few individuals at the top. If this current economic system isn't pure evil, I don't know what is! Without government regulation, economies crash and society turns to chaos. Laws protect our "freedoms". People have also made compelling points as to how capitalism destroys freedom. So, again, I am curious to know how they defined socialism. I fail to see how any disciple of the Lord would support the system that is currently in place.
Marion G. Romney does a good job at explaining what they, the brethren mean when they say socialism.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1023062304794603
He gave that talk at BYU and then was asked, by the prophet, to repeat it in General Conference a few weeks later.
Iis your assertion that you are correct because leaders in the church agree with your views?
If he was right, why did President Kimball force him to apologize for these sentiments… twice?
I feel the basis of your opinion is your deference to church authorities as you cherry-pick quotes, but I’m curious if you also think they were right in their views regarding racism which have since been disavowed by the current prophets,seers, andrevelators?
Steve you are misinformed. To like the 10th degree.
First. President Kimball did not 'force him to apologize' for this statement. In fact this statement was given over 10 YEARS BEFORE President Kimball became the acting President of the Quorum.
Second. President McKay repeatedly and forcefully denounced communism and socialism almost every single conference. In fact, the paragraph before this quote he quotes McKay who warned: "During the first half of the twentieth century we have traveled far into the soul-destroying land of socialism and made strange alliances through which we have become involved in almost continuous hot and cold wars over the whole of the earth. In this retreat from freedom the voices of protesting citizens have been drowned by raucous shouts of intolerance and abuse from those who led the retreat and their millions of gullible youth, who are marching merrily to their doom, carrying banners on which are emblazoned such intriguing and misapplied labels as social justice equality, reform patriotism social welfare."
Stop, just stop before you expose your ignorance on this topic more.
These quotes and warnings from our former church leaders were a simple, and specific warning. I do not believe there is any judgement by the author’s of this article. They are simply repeating and commenting on the warnings of socialism and communism, and what prophets of the Lord have spoken on the subject. Were these men not called by the Lord and had inspiration to share with the world? If so, then these words spoken many decades ago are here to be a witness and a warning to all of us. I met a wonderful man from Czechoslovakia who was converted to gospel in that country by another member of the church living in that country. They had to keep their faith hidden. Their meetings secret for fear of being thrown into prison or even killed for their beliefs in Jesus Christ. My point is that most people who are members of the church, that I know personally, and live in communist or socialist countries, hate or have no loyalty to those governments. They just do what is necessary to do what is right in the sight of the Lord, and to survive to serve him. I would not consider them communist or socialists. This nation, the United States of America, needs to be the example of liberty and freedom to teach other nations to follow our example. Not to join a large portion of the world in changing to a socialist or communist regime ourselves. The restoration of the true church of Jesus Christ happened here in a free land, not a socialist state. This was by design. Socialism or communism have no place in this country, and should not anywhere else either.