The 5 Things That Will Happen With The Passing Of President Monson
The 5 Things That Will Happen With The Passing Of President Monson
At 10:01 PM on January 2nd President Thomas S. Monson passed away. For over 3,000,000 members of the church, this is the first time they have ever experienced the death of a Prophet. The question often comes up, now what? What happens when a Prophet dies? Who is in charge? Does it work the same way as when the pope dies? Here are the 5 things that will happen with the passing of President Thomas S. Monson.
1st The Dissolving Of The First Presidency.
Immediately upon the death of President Monson, his counselors, President Henry B. Eyring and President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, were released and the First Presidency was dissolved. President Henry B. Eyring and President Dieter F. Uchtdorf then return to their respective positions of seniority within the Quorum of the 12 Apostles.
*Often this causes there to be more than 12 Apostles. With the passing of Elder Hales, there are now currently 13 Apostles. Who in order of their seniority are:
- President Russell M. Nelson.
- Dallin H. Oaks.
- M. Russell Ballard.
- Jeffrey R. Holland.
- Henry B. Eyring.
- Dieter F. Uchtdorf.
- David A. Bednar.
- Quentin L. Cook
- D. Todd Christofferson
- Neil L. Andersen.
- Ronald A. Rasband
- Gary E. Stevenson
- Dale G. Renlund
"When the President of the Church dies, the quorum of the First Presidency is automatically dissolved and the counselors, if they previously had been in the Quorum of the Twelve, return to their respective places of seniority in that quorum."
“Chapter 3: Succession in the Presidency,” Teachings of the Living Prophets Student Manual (2010), 28–41
2nd. The Quorum Of The 12 Apostles Leads The church.
With the dissolving of the First Presidency, the Quorum of the 12 Apostles becomes the ruling body of the Church. With President Russell M. Nelson (The President of the Quorum of the 12 Apostles) becoming the acting President of the Church. Wilford Woodruff taught, "When the President of the Church dies, who has the presiding authority of the Church? It is the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, ordained and organized by the revelation of God and none else. Then while these Twelve Apostles preside over the Church, who is the President of the Church? It is the President of the Twelve Apostles"
3rd. All The Apostles Gather Together To Set Apart The New Prophet.
After the funeral services of President Monson, the full Quorum of the 12 Apostles will gather in the Salt Lake Temple. There every Apostle will fast, pray, and when they have all received a personal confirmation. Once they have come to a unanimous consensus they will sustain President Russell M. Nelson (the President of the Quorum of the 12) as the next Prophet, Seer, and Revelator of the church. All 12 of the Apostles will then lay their hands on his head and set him apart.
*During the early years of the Church, the time between the funeral and ordination of a new Prophet was sometimes years.
"At the passing of the president of the Church, the Quorum of the Twelve takes over and the senior member, or the president of the Twelve, becomes the presiding officer."
President N. Eldon Tanner
*President Hinckley perfectly describes this process in 1986 when he declared the New Prophet is always the President of the Quorum of the 12.
4th. The New Prophet Organizes The First Presidency.
President Russell M. Nelson will then select his two* counselors from the worthy Melekzideck Priesthood holders for the Church. Often he calls them from the Quorum of the 12. Although it is not required (10 different times a counselor was chosen who was not an apostle). They are then sustained and set apart. There is then a press conference from Salt Lake City to announce that Russell M. Nelson will be the next Prophet and who his counselors in the First Presidency will be.
*Whereas there are normally only 2 counselors there have been times where there were more. David O. McKay had 5, Spencer Kimball had 3, and Brigham Young had 8!
*If the called counselor is not an apostle, he can either be ordained one (as in the case of J. Reuben Clark) or they can simply be called into the First Presidency without becoming an apostle (as in the case of Charles W. Nibley and John R. Winder both were never set apart as apostles). But regardless of their apostleship, all members of the First Presidency are still sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators, but when the prophet dies if a counselor has not been ordained as an apostle and joined the twelve previously, he is released and does not join the twelve as in the case of Alvin R. Dyer who returned to being an assistant to the 12 at the death of David O. McKay. Whereas these examples are of the exception, normally it is an apostle that is called as a counselor in the First Presidency.
5th. The Church Has A Solemn Assembly.
The General Conference following the reorganization of the First Presidency is called a Solemn Assembly. During said Solemn Assembly the church sustains the First Presidency and the newly called Apostles to full the quorum up to 12. In the words of David B. Haight, "A solemn assembly, as the name implies, denotes a sacred, sober, and reverent occasion when the Saints assemble under the direction of the First Presidency. Solemn assemblies are used for three purposes: the dedication of temples, special instruction to priesthood leaders, and sustaining a new President of the Church."
What then happens if the President selects two counselors outside the Quorum of 12? In the event that the Quorum membership numbers up to 14 after the dissolution of the First Presidency. Meaning that the new presidency becomes, President and counselors, and Quorum of 12 becomes 13.
I don't think it's ever happened, I will look into it. But I would assume they would stay at 13 until someone passed away and it returned to 12.
The Apostolic calling is a Priesthood office. The Quorum is the official organization of this group of men who hold the office. Just as there may be more than 12 Deacons, or 24 Teachers in the Aaronic Priesthood, and an Elder's Quorum is 96, there may from time to time be more than that number of the priesthood office holders in a specific unit. In such a case, that Elder, etc, would still meet with the other members in the unit in which he resides. Not sure if the 13th Apostle would sit in council with the other brethren, or only perhaps act as an alternate or substitute in the case of another Apostle who is either incapacitated or otherwise unavailable.
Correct.
We can have 13+ apostles without any problem.
I just recently read were extra members were removed from the quorum until the death of a member. At that time, they are added back to the quorum.
This would not be a problem currently as Elder Hales has not yet been replaced. Therefore, with the passing of President Monson, the Q15 are now Q12.
There are currently 13 in the quorum, including president Nelson. When he is set apart as president of the church, there will be 12 apostles in the quorum, with Elder Oaks as the quorum's president. If president Nelson selects 2 brethren outside the quorum of the 12 to make up the first presidency, there will still be 12 members in the quorum, and he will be no need to fill the vacant spots left by Elder Hales & President Packer.
Correct except it is Hales and President Monson.
Rarely does a new prophet change counselors.
The safe money bet is President's Eyering and U. will be retained.
Your comment is very true, especially within the last thirty 30 years. Within 50, however, both President Benson and President Fielding Smith did not retain one, or both, of the counselors of their predecessors. Its happened a handful of times outside of that 50 year window as well.
J Reuben Clark was called to the First Presidency and was not an apostle. In that case when the prophet dies the counselor who was an apostle would go back to being a regular member of the church as the First Presidency is dissolved.
Elder Clark was ordained an Apostle, but he was never in the quorum. This has happened a few time over the years.
There have been several occasions where the profit is called more apostles because of particular needs in the church at the time.
There is an app on Google Play called Latter-Day apostles. It will tell you who the prophet, first presidency and the Quorum of The Twelve or as many as there were called at any given time in the church it's a nice application with great historical information
There are at this time only eleven in the Quorum. The picture above shows Elder Hales. If President Nelson picks some one not of the Quorum, he will need to still pick two new Apostles. If he picks out of the quorum, there will need to be 4 new Apostles picked?
No. Eyring and Uchtdorf return to the Quorum at this time. There are 13 Apostles currently. There will, most likely, only be two new apostles called this next Conference. Replacements for Monson and Hales. There are other scenarios discussed above which don't need to be rewritten.
Selection of first presidency and its counselors, must come from the Quorum of Apostles and that will reduce their number to 12. They are 14 as a result of the devolving of the first presidency..
The counselors don't have to be from the Quorum of the 12.
If for some reason, there are 13 Apostles after the creation of the First Presidency, the youngest Apostle (or another Apostle if sustained) is placed in Emeritus status until a vacancy in the Quorum is available.
Well, it won't happen this time anyway. Elder Hales still has not been replaced in the Quorum, so even if President Nelson DID choose two counselors who were not from the Twelve (which is quite unlikely), it would still leave exactly twelve in the Quorum 😉
Usually the only times when counselors in the First Presidency would be called from outside the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles is when there is unprecedented church growth and the current members of the First Presidency are slowed due to the effects of age/illness. Such was the case in the calling of President Hinckley as a third counselor to President Kimball and the calling of Thorpe B. Isaacson as a counselor to President McKay.
If a counselor is chosen who is not an Apostle, is he first called to be an Apostle prior to his call to the 1st Presidency?
Not always. Thorpe B. Isaacson (who served with David O. McKay) was not ordained an apostle and when President McKay passed away he did not become and apostle or join the 12.
I thougth the members voted on the new president?
Out vote is less about who we want, and more that we affirm and support him. With or without our vote the church will go forward.
If there isn't unanimous consent then the leader is impinged in his authority to govern. Those who sincerely oppose an officer in their calling should be respectfully listened to and their grievance should be resolved. The Lord didn't set this up as a meaningless process the leadership is free to ignore and just carry on irrespective of those who oppose.
I think there is some confusion. I was referring to the voting of the members is more of sustaining. The voting of the 12 must be unanimous.
I understood that was your point, but the way you stated it raised the concern I shared. We aren't only asked to sustain but we are also given the capacity to oppose as well. These days it seems things have shifted to where if someone opts to vote to oppose that they are automatically assumed to be an apostate.
However, this isn't what should be assumed of someone. Nor should someone's sincere and justified reason for opposing be summarily dismissed. If someone has a grievance (as opposed to a judgment) then it is incumbent upon the leadership to address that grievance and see that it gets resolved in a respectful manner.
It likely wasn't your intent, but it seemed to me that the way you addressed the vote of the membership was that the Church could just turn a deaf ear to those who opt to vote to oppose and that they Church would just roll on blissfully ignoring those who dissent.
According to D&C 101 if leaders turn a deaf ear to petitions for redress of grievances, then they risk reaping to themselves the greatest level of condemnation. God says leaders who turn a deaf ear to such petitions that they could be cast into outer darkness.
This is a level of condemnation worse than Perdition!
We do not call or vote. We do not have that authority. We sustain or oppose. That means
Sustaining we support and we recognise him as a Prophet. If opposed we would be saying we believe there is a reason we feel he shouldn't be sustained. Suggesting the idea of knowledge of something. Then you tasked that to your local leaders and they pass it along. Through the authority to access of there was good cause... just as with anyone called I the church. We must remember, the Lord is at the Head. He calls, we listen to strengthen our testimony.
There is no voting for the Presidency. It is a sustaining of the position. Just like in a normal church meeting when sustaining someone called to an office. The senior apostle becomes the President of the church, unless the senior Apostle received revelations otherwise.
Years ago, Gordon B. Hinkley was called as a special counselor to the First Presidency when two of the 3 members were older and frailer.
Great question.
When a member of the Quorum of the Twelve dies they carry on even though the number of members is not 12. Quorum of the Seventy is never actually made up of 70 people.
I guess it is a possibility for Quorum of the Twelve to have a thirteens/fourteen member for a period of time.
A quorum means the minimum amount required in order to administer in its affairs. As I understand it the first quorum of the 70 had to contain at least 70 members. The subsequent quorums are then additional to that first 70.
I wrote a Facebook article about the subject of succession that others may find interesting.
http://www.facebook.com/jason.l.wharton/posts/10156015012028126
Great article. I would add a 6th thing. After the first presidency is organized the senior apostle (presumably Oaks) will be ordained president of that quorum
Correct, Elder Oaks would be set apart as the President of the 12 as long as he is not called into the First Presidency. If he was, then Elder Ballard would be set apart as the acting President of the 12.
No matter who is in the presidency, Elder Oaks will be set apart as president of the quorum of the 12 apostles. If he is in the presidency there will be an acting president of the quorum, but he is still set apart as president of the quorum.
Yes, sorry for that miscommunication. He will be the president of the 12, but if called into the First Presidency he won't be acting, that would turn to Ballard.
However, if Nelson selects Oaks and Ballard as counselors, then Elder Holland becomes Acting President of the Quorum. This is surprising to think about as he has been one of the younger apostles for a large portion of my life.
Yes, I would love a President Holland!
Puis-je donner mon avis, tout en respectant la doctrine du CHRIST?
Nous sommes dans une optique de rétablissement de toute choses et les défis du mon actuelles nécessitent la présence de 16 apotres présidents de l'Eglise. A mon humble avis, la perte de 2 de nos apotres Robert D.Hales et Thomas S.Monson nécessite l'appel de 2 nouveaux apotres donc lorsque le nouveau prophète et ses conseillers seront appelés, il restera 2 postes vacants au sein du collège des 12 qui sera comblé par l'appel de 2 nouveaux apotres. Merci.
I agree.
The apostles do not have to select the most senior apostle to become President of the Church. That is the way that it has happened since the Church was reorganized, but it is only what has happened. They are required to listen to the Spirit and make a decision based on the direction of the Spirit. Thus far in the history of the Church that direction has always been to select the most senior apostle, and that is unlikely to change at this time.
Couldn’t have said it better! It isn’t necessarily going to be Elder Nelson.
Doesn't "have to be be" President Nelson. But it "will be".
https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/additional-resource/succession-in-the-presidency-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints
According to President Hinckley, it is always the president of the 12.
Your comment is incorrect. The senior Apostle will always become the President of the Church, unless directed by that same person to organize a different way.
The Quorum does not vote for the President, the Quorum sustains the new President. When the new President is sustained, the Quorum does not set apart the President, they use the Priesthood to bless him in that position.
That is really interesting, thank you for publishing this, it made me feel better.
You forgot that there is 1 apostale out there and 2 more are supposed to be ordained into the quorum. Step 6.
I support the process of selecting a new church leader. But what happens if the 12 do not get spiritual confirmation of the new prophet? What if several find it. To be someone else? Will they stand up for their personal revelation, or just go along with how its been done in the past? Just curious.
The game of what if has little value. They are praying for a confirmation that it is President Nelson. And because it is, they will get it.
Number 3. "All The Apostles Gather Together To Set Apart The New Prophet" is incorrect. They are not sustaining a new Prophet, they are sustaining a new President of the Church. All those in the Quorum of the 12 are already set apart as Prophets, Seers, and Revelators when they receive their call as an Apostle. This ensures the keys of the Priesthood and of the Church are maintained.
Sorry that is not clear, whereas all apostles are sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators. Only is one is sustained as THE Prophet and President of the church. When they all set apart the new prophet they are setting him apart as the President of the 1st Presidency, and chief Elder, and Prophet, Seer and Revelator for the whole church.
As members of the Church, our job is to pray to receive a testimony that Pres. is indeed one chosen, by the Lord, to be the New Prophet and President of the Church. Fast Sunday is tomorrow (Jan 7th), you might include that question in with your fast.
What if when they meet and pray, not all receive the revelation that he should be the President? Has that happened?
If the 12 does not come to a unanimous decision on who should be the next prophet, and that the time was now to reorganize the First Presidency, then the 12 will act as the ruling body of the Church until they do. This happened a lot during the early days, but since President Snow, it has not.
I suppose it could happen that someone in the quorum would not support ordaining President Nelson as the President of the church, but the quorum of the 12 have such a close relationship between themselves and with the Spirit of the Lord that it will not happen. Many of them have commented on how unified they already are in seeking the Lord's will that I cannot see any outcome other than President Nelson.