Four Ways The Shame Culture Is Corrupting Mormon Culture.
Four Ways The Shame Culture Is Corrupting Mormon Culture.
There is a thriving shame culture in the world today. The shame culture is cancer; and sadly, it has infected in many aspects of Mormon culture. Having lived in The South I experienced persecution for being a member of the church by those outside the church. But nowhere have I experienced more shame and persecution than by members of the church who thought I should be living the gospel differently than I did. Like the olive tree overtaken with wild branches, Mormon culture has been overpowered and corrupted by the shame culture. (See Elder Christofferson's talk on the shame culture). It is time for us to realize that aspects of Mormon culture are really cancerous aspects of the shame culture. I want to outline 4 aspects of Mormon culture that have been corrupted, and how to fix them.
1st. The Caste System Within Mormon Culture.
One of the first things the shame culture does is feed one's pride. It does this by categorizing everyone and creating a caste system so to speak. (A caste system is a class system). A few examples of the Caste system are, Pioneer stock vs Converts, Rich vs Poor, Early RM's vs RM's, Baptizing Missionaries vs Non-Baptizing Missionaries, Singles vs Married, Those who have served missions vs those who have not, Large Families vs Small Families. I could go on and on about the growing caste system within Mormon culture.
We even do this with the leadership of the Church, we want to idolize them as more than men. One time I was doing an endowment at the Salt Lake Temple and Elder Christofferson sat right in front of me! And then Steve Young sat right next to me. I made a comment about how cool it was to do an endowment with Elder Christofferson, Steve Young turned to me and said, "He is just a man, as normal as me or you."
It was humbling to see that Steve Young, an Apostle, an NFL Super Star, and a single 24-year-old were all the same. His words reminded me that in the Kingdom of God, there are no caste systems! Each of us is a child of God with the potential to become like Him.
"It is essential that our preeminent identity is as a child of God."
Elder Donald L. Hallstrom
2nd. Treating Culture As If It Was A Commandment.
One of the biggest contributors to the shame culture is when we blend culture and commandments. Growing up a few young men in my ward had long hair, members would incessantly tease them and tell them to cut their hair, none of these boys are now active in the church. Last I checked there is not a commandment that tells us certain haircuts are sinful. Beards do not violate temple covenants.
The fact of the matter is this, too many members of the church, like the Pharisees of old, love inventing new commandments. They theorize and then teach these commandments of men mingled with scripture as doctrine. But the worst part is they then judge others on how diligently they keep their faux commandments. And even if it is a real commandment they are struggling with, the best place for them to be is in Church working on it!
Take, for example, my boss. Who I had been trying to share the gospel with for years. I invited him to the Provo City Center Temple Open House and he agreed! He told admitted that one of his 'bucket list' items was to go inside a temple, as his sister had joined the church and was married in one.
We had an amazing car ride talking about the gospel, the video at the beginning of the tour was amazing, he told me he had so many questions and as we were walking into the temple he asked me "Why do Mormons believe in baptisms for the dead?" As I started to reply an elderly couple turned around looking appalled and told us in a loud voice "BE QUIET IN THE TEMPLE!" They gave us nasty looks and we walked the rest of the way in silence.
After the tour was over as we drove home, I asked what his favorite part was and if he had any questions? He replied, "Why was that couple so rude to us?" It was such a negative experience that it was the only thing he remembered. I tried to explain that to some members they equate absolute silence with reverence, but it was too late. As I dropped him off at his house he said: "Well, I can check that off my bucket list now." To this day, (five years after this experience) my boss still has not shown more interest in the gospel.
3rd. Allowing Politics To Divide Us.
Politics is the most divisive thing I've witnessed separating people within the church. Want to know the big secret? God is neither conservative nor liberal. God is not a Republican, Democrat, or Libertarian and we need to stop acting like He is. Each of the political ideologies has aspects of the Gospel incorporated into them. To quote a 2016 letter from the First presidency. "Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles."
I have seen too many members who take it upon themselves to declare the church supports their political ideology. And not only that, they go so far as to treat all members who disagree with them as apostates. Yes, we must be engaged in the political arena, but we must always act as disciples of Christ. At political rallies/marches/protests/town hall meetings, we should always act in accordance with the principles of the gospel.
The great danger is when our politics becomes our God. Ask yourself, do people know me as a Latter-day Saint or as Democrat/Republican/Libertarian? Do I put as much effort into building the Kingdom of God as I do a political kingdom? Never let politics draw you away from building the Kingdom of God. The First Presidency in the October 1951 conference stated: “A threat to our unity derives from unseemly personal antagonisms developed in partisan political controversy."
4th. Persecuting Others. Are Vistors Really Welcome?
In front of every LDS Church is a sign declaring "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Visitors Welcome." But sometimes I wonder if members have another sign that they place in the lobby, chapel, and classrooms. A sign placed by the attitude, lack of friendliness, and judgemental looks. A sign that reads: "Visitors not welcome, unless you think like us, look like us, and are straight." We must always remember that this is NOT our church but His church. Jesus Christ sets the rules.
One of the saddest examples of this happened in Nevada. A stake was doing a "Why I believe" series with famous members of the stake sharing their testimony of the restored gospel. The stake president asked Harry Reid, a convert to Church and the United States Senate Majority Leader to share his conversion story. Harry Reid agreed, but threats from members of the church who disagreed with his politics became so bad that his security detail told him it was too dangerous, and he was forced to cancel the fireside. Think about that. It was too dangerous for a Latter-day Saint to share his testimony in a chapel because his political ideology was different!
I can't help but close my eyes and see Christ crying over how members of His church treat others. Christ has declared that in His church visitors will be welcome. Welcome to the active and less active alike, welcome to the person who is a temple worker and the person who struggles with the word of wisdom. Welcome to the LGBTQ youth who need to be told they are a child of God and that someone loves them! His arms are open and welcoming to everyone. Do our actions echo or disagree with His? In the words of Elder Dale G. Renlund: "We must not be guilty of persecuting anyone inside or outside the Church."
Conclusion: WE NEED YOU.
We like to talk about how everyone needs the church. And it is true, that we need the ordinances and blessings that are offered only within the organization of the Church.
But there is another truth, the church needs you. Yes, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints needs singles, converts, liberals and conservatives, transgender people, gays, the barren, the alcoholic, and the less active. The church needs YOU! Each of you has a role in building the Kingdom. Christ died for you as much as he died for anyone else. Please never let the actions of others or the culture scare you away from this simple truth: God loves you and we need you! In the words of Elder Jeffrey R. Holland: "There is room for the single, for the married, for large families, and for the childless...There is room for those with differing sexual attractions. In short, there is a place for everyone who loves God and honors His commandments"
Great article which brings the gospel back into focus.... we need to love the sinner (not the sin) because we are all sinners and need the love of God.
My HUUUGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEE problem with that ideology is you are still dividing. Love people! Just do it. Don't separate parts of them. That is not your job. Your job is to love them all of them. The moment they come into your life. Be it the chain smoking asthmatic whose kids are as untamed as the forest themselves. Be they the gay couple down the street who hates all religions. Or be they the golden couple you just can't wait to invite to church because they would soooo fit in. In other words........YOU DON"T GET TO PICK THE PARTS OF THEM TO LOVE OR DISAPPROVE OF. According to your religion your God doesn't so why should you? I know some (insert whatever swear word you chose to use) geriatric homophone coined that phrase and it was so popular in the 90's. Problem is Christ said otherwise. So who you going to listen to?
Two guiding quotes.
"Real love for the sinner may compel courageous confrontation—not acquiescence! Real love does not support self-destructing behavior."
Russell M. Nelson
"We cannot, my dear brethren, condition our love...There have to be standards and they must be enforced, but our love must be unconditional."
Marion D. Hanks
So is it your Job to call these people, especially the ones who have already taken the first step and are present at church, to repentance? Are you their eclesastical authority? Why dont you leave that to their bishop, their quorum leadership and you concentrate on the loving and friendship? Why dont you work on mastering the love part and when you have that down then you try the calling to repentance? Your attitude seeps like a cancer into those around you and they know that you dont welcome them that you re judging their righteousness and their value as a human being.
I am calling sin a sin. I am not calling people out but a sin.
Wow - missed the whole point of the article.
This was such a great article and it really hit home today! My daughter was baptized this past weekend and my family came to town, including my sister who is married to a same sex partner. I always think it is amazing that she is still supportive of her family who doesn’t believe the way she does. She even lead the music at my daughters baptism! She came to church with us yesterday, and by a stroke of “luck” people started commenting on how it is evil for same sex couples to adopt children. Several people agreed. This was also used as an example regarding the types of people we should let into our lives... she felt very sad and judged. It kind of ruined the whole mood of the weekend. I am getting so fed up with holier than though, perfect members
What didn't you understand from this article. I think it was right on the mark. Judging ones righteousness. Really! We had an argument in Sunday school about perfection. The teacher insisted that perfection was possible and others disagreed. He then stated that Father wouldn't give us a commandment he didn't intend us to keep. Matthew 5:48 is the most misquoted verse in Mormon theology. If you think it's a commandment then you don't read nor understand the scriptures. A call to repentance is far from what this article is all about. I had someone jump on me in the temple chapel for chatting with my wife. Who was judging whom? This author was right on the mark. You're not.
How can we strive to fulfill the commandment “Be ye therefore perfect”? - Teachings Of Presidents of The Church: Harold B. Chapter 21 Striving for Perfection
https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-harold-b-lee/chapter-21?lang=eng
Be Ye Therefore Perfect—Eventually
https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2017/11/saturday-morning-session/be-ye-therefore-perfect-eventually?lang=eng
You don’t read or understand the scriptures.
You are conflating love with approval. This is probably one of the biggest mistakes people make in trying to understand what it means to love everyone.
God is the most loving of all beings in existence. Yet He is also the most disapproving as He cannot accept sin in even the least degree. He does not accept any of us as we are. He commands us to change and become like Him.
The difficulty we seem to run face first into so often is not understanding that we need to express love despite disapproval of sinful behavior. While we cannot accept sin just as He cannot, our sin becomes that we fail to see the person as He does and fall to looking down on them instead of showing love for them. We must learn how to reject the sin, but embrace the sinner.
We need to forgive without question. We need to accept that we are just as imperfect as anyone else we see and that we should all just be trying to help each other get back to our Heavenly Father. The pure love of Christ is something we must ask Him to give us, because we are completely incapable of such perfect love ourselves.
Certainly we cannot accept sin but we can choose to ignore it. As members of the church we are far too prone to focus on others sins. Unless we have been called as judges in Zion it is not our job to"fix" others mistakes. That isn't to say that we can't be a guiding light, or offer loving advice in the appropriate spirit inspired setting (ie home teaching, private conversations, etc) where the person is seeking our direction. But the vast majority of the times when we are "not accepting sin" we are really just mentally or verbally condemning that person just because their sins are different than our own. In my opinion the key to true descipleship in this one area is to simply ignore others weaknesses (ie sins) and to praise their righteous strengths so that they will know that your love is true and so that the light of Christ can shine through us. The truth is we all judge/condemn others. It's just the natural man in each of us. But in the service of God we should all be striving to do it a little less.
This comment about differentiating between love and approval was spot on perfect! I was abused horribly as a child by someone. It has scarred me in ways that only the Savior could fully understand. After many years of trying it the world’s way, and hating this person, I realized that what I needed to do was to love this person. Does that mean I love what happened to me? Absolutely not! Does it mean I accept what they did? Not at all. But, I have fully forgiven them and grown to love the person they are in spite of the sin they committed. I stopped judging them based on their sins and started seeing them as a child of God who made a hurtful choice. After years of my forgiveness, they have finally forgiven themselves and have even become an emotional support and joy to my life. I still have scars, but to me, they are reminders to love, much like when I see the scars in the palms of my Savior’s hands. As much as I witness and detest the sins of mankind, I love all of us, both as temporal sinners, and as eternal children of the Creator of the universe. We are both, simultaneously.
♥️ Your comments
Cdaragorn, you are right on the mark. Love the sinner, not the sin. I have two daughters, and often tell them there is nothing they can do that will make me un-love them, although sometimes they do try! I believe that Heavenly Father and his Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, feel the same way. I am so happy to have a Father such as that, He loves me no matter what; but will judge me one day according to what I have done, or not done in my probationary period in mortality. I pray for the forgiveness of my Father in heaven who forgives me for my sins, which caused my Savior such pain in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross. I would like to obtain that level of forgiveness, and cannot in any way judge others because they may sin, knowing of the pain my own sins caused Jesus Christ.
Preach!
“There is room for the single, for the married, for large families, and for the childless . . . There is room for those with differing sexual attractions (as long as they can handle a life of loneliness and never ever, EVER be who they ARE by trying to date, hold hands, give or receive long hugs or kiss or ESPECIALLY NOT MARRY anyone their heart is naturally drawn to or in love with *if they are same-gender, even though LOVE, FAMILY and MARRIAGE is [unrightly] the main focus of the religion). In short, there is a place for everyone who loves God and honors His (but mostly our) commandments.”
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland.
The church is actively cutting off the "unseemly" body parts from the body of Christ. I was true blue until the November 5th policy change about married gays and their kids came out. Not baptizing kids because of their parents' choices? That's exactly against the words of Christ which implore, "let the little children come unto me and forbid them not."
No, it is not cutting off any body parts. Little kids can come unto Christ, the only ones who are forbidding them from entering the covenant pathway are their parents who have forsaken the covenant pathway in favor of a life of sin. Just like polygamists. But as soon as the child is old enough to forsake the apostasy and sins of their parents and legally move out then they can start the pathway. See, baptism is about so much more than just doing what other 8-year-olds are doing. It is about actively walking the covenant path.
I will never criticize church policies. But many scriptures differenciate between the sins of the parents and the consequences on the children. Because if a child has parents who commit sins like against the Word of Wisdom, or children of parents who belittle their children also disqualify their children from blessings? I don’t understand
When a parent sins and leads their family astray they will answer to God for their actions. Their kids will be judged based upon their obedience to the light and knowledge they have. If we obey then we are blessed, if we don't we are not.
Unrighteous judgement, the thing we are commanded to refrain from, comes from not making the effort to understand. Such as the guidelines about baptizing children of same sex marriage. It has nothing to do with punishment. You have obviously have some feelings that are not allowing you to understand.
You are forgetting what baptism really is. It's a covenant that brings with it condemnation. The reason why we have baptism interviews is to identify our state of mind. Baptising someone who is not interested - or able - to fulfill their side of the covenant is doing them an incredible disservice. It puts them in a position of responsibility. Holding off on baptism relieves them of the responsibility. As a child, they are subject to their parents - which is right and proper. If the parents choose to live a life style incompatible with the Gospel, then baptizing their children is a horrendous thing to do. At the very least, it puts them at odds with their family, which is disruptive to the family. In addition, the only resolution for such a family to come in line with the Gospel would result in the dissolution of the family. What the Church has done is respect the family to the point of reliving the children of their accountability until they are adults themselves. A child that is not allowed to be baptized because of their family situation is not accountable for that. They have essentially been given a dispensation from accountability.
The same applies to any family situation in such a state. If the parents of a family are actively living in a way incongruent with the Gospel, baptizing the children of that family is a great disservice.
Please don't think that policy change about not baptising the children of gays is in any way condemning them. I am sure it is more to protect them. Whereas we should love and accept everyone without judgment, the Church still has to teach Christ's commandments and correct principles. It must be very confusing for children to be taught different things in the home and at church. So the church is saying the parents are the most important influence in that child's life, and it doesn't want to create conflict. It's a good thing, not a bad one. If you are gay, be glad that the church is not trying to 'take' your children and teach them differently.
Ok you are clearly DONT like this article and the explanation was a little, well not enlightening. Please guide me a little as to why you think the articles writer " abrasive and aggressive wording creating more division, very proud of you" ideology is "still dividing" a little clarity so I may see your point of view.
We need to love people period and stop saying but “not the sin.” Why can’t we just love people and stop seeing the sin. It’s not even any of our business.
Doctrine and Covenants 64:9-11
And who is to determine whether or not there is sin? Only God. Let's stop categorizing people as sinners and give us all the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I think we are taught to look for sin. I dislike your quote as it is too negative. Let's change the language. We need to love all people starting with ourselves.
I happen to think that we, as in Latter-day Saints, tend to vastly over rate what we think are sins. I also think we tend to UNDER Estimate the power and forgiveness of our Lord.
We get into a lot of trouble in trying to put a precise definition of what a sin is. Sort of like how there are the most serious of felonies, Murder, Rape, Molestation, then things like Robbery, Mugging, all the way down to a parking ticket. Sure they are all violations of some law, but not all of the same severity.
I was wisely told, if something you have done, cannot be resolved by prayer between you and the Lord, then by all accounts see your Bishop or other appropriate leader. Those are the things you may need help with.
I can see both sides of the article, I have had my moments in our Ward with others, sure and I've been judged, but I really do love this Church, the Temples, the Gospel and the people. I am very close to my ward family and I know that if I needed anything, they'd be there for my family and me. Are there problems? Of course. But they are manageable and if you leave your judgment at the door like we are asked to do together we are stronger. This is my humble opinion, enjoy the day and God bless
Jesus laid aside his equality, wealth, Joy and Glory with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit and humbled himself to the form of a servant .
”Who although being essentially one with God and in the Form of God {possessing the fullness of the attributes which make GOD GOD} did not think this equality with God was a thing to be grasped or retained.” Philippians 2:6 Amplified version
“For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.” 2 Cor. 8:9
Hebrews 12
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
In the original language “for the joy” means “he exchanged Joy for Shame”.
John 17
“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Thank you, Jesus, for coming down from your throne in heaven where you were the Almighty God, “EL SHADDAI”, The Great I AM creator of all things in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, thrones, dominions, and principalities and powers, the galaxy, constellations, the cosmos everything created you created . You were rich yet you became poor. You were Almighty yet you emptied yourself and became a humble servant, you exchanged joy for sorrow , sorrow by dying a shameful death on a cross as a criminal even thou you had no sin , Jesus you laid aside your Glory with God the Father and Holy Spirit . Jesus you should have been born as a King in an opulent palace, instead of a servant in a stable in a manager. Thank you, Jesus for your sacrifice
@Ben Nichols,
I think you missed the whole point and "mission" of Jeremy's article. What he said is exactly correct for the most part. I felt no separation or division. Jeremy wasn't criticizing the so-called "offenders". He was criticizing US....if the shoe fits! If we are afraid to admit our failures and foibles, how will we ever perfect ourselves or our faith?
You just undid all the good you said with that last statement.
What do you mean?
"There is room for those with differing sexual attractions. In short, there is a place for everyone who loves God and honors His commandments.”
Those two sentences are diametrically opposed to each other. Together they form an oxymoron.
It is actually in complete harmony with the law of chastity.
Elder Holland said that quote. And having an attraction to something isn't the same as acting on that attraction.
Amen and thank you. I am an alcoholic, but that doesn't mean I imbibe since becoming active in the church for the last 10 years. We can love all sorts of things but it does not mean we partake, sin or not.
That's Elder Holland's words, not the authors.
And what do we doctrinally know of differing sexual attractions?
For me the problem with the quote is the implication that if you are not currently obeying whatever commandment you are not welcome. If someone is struggling with alcoholism, I would not want them to feel that they couldn't come to church if they had messed up or if they hadn't mastered their addiction, etc. There really isn't that much difference between a weakness for alcohol and a weakness for overindulgence in food. And yet we don't exclude people who struggle with their weight. Whatever our various challenges are we should strive to love and support one another. But I have to say that I'm not at all convinced that alcoholism and homosexuality are even fair comparisons for various reasons...
But if someone is gay and chooses a course other than the abstinence or mixed orientation marriage options offered by the church, or if they give up or slip up morally, I would hope that they would not automatically be excluded. These are difficult issues, but it is hard for me to hear qualifiers on our love or what we claim to be God's love. God loves the sinner because it is the love of God that inspires change and makes it possible. Perhaps that is a good model for us to follow...
@Michelle Honoring God's commandments does not mean that you are perfect in obeying them. It only means that you are willing to seek repentance and accept that that behavior is sinful. If it required perfect obedience we would all be unwelcome.
In short, we all have weaknesses and different commandments that are challenging for us personally. Despite that, we are all equally welcome as we seek to become more like God through the power of the Savior's atonement.
I agree that that statement is a little oxymoron. I do not know if all of the cultural or doctrinal commandments are God’s. I believe some of them are. I believe some of them may be from man.
I believe the most important thing for any human is their relationship with the divine, how they treat themselves and others.
There is room for every human on this planet to find that relationship with the divine. I believe Happiness, compassion, love etc are not exclusive to the LDS Church. “These states and capacities are within all of us and do not depend on any outer circumstance or personal characteristic. They do not depend on a belief in any religious system. No single group or systems owns inner peace as it belongs to the human spirit by virtue to our origin.” Letting Go, Pathway to Surrender
I have compassion for all humans. I have empathy for members who feel lost, alone and hopeless.
I have compassion for members who judge.
But the most healing I have ever found is to find self compassion, Turning toward the divine and separating myself from the LDS Church.
if someone doesn't know they are sinning and no one points it out to them then how can they ever change?
Think upon your sins. What brings you to change? The fact that others continue to disapprove of that sin, or the fact that others love you even though you sin? If one stops sinning to gain your approval, that is their reward.
I believe that sin changing shame is a Godly shame. When man takes it upon himself to inflict shame, is it Godly? Does shame by man bring the sinner to a repentant heart? Does the shamer seek self glory if the sinner repents? I submit that a sinner will only repent if he/she is touched by God's love then a Godly shame will reveal to the sinner that which keeps them separate. How many sinners have truly repented because another man or woman has shown their distain for their sin? If shaming only pushes the sinner away, it cannot be of God, for with God nothing is impossible. I grew up in this toxic shame environment and found it driving me to desire death because the shame did not change me so I must die to please those who did not approve of my "sin" if I am sinning, why do I not feel a Godly shame which brings a desire to change? Is it because there is a lack of members shaming me? What does God say in your heart?
Apparently, I still fall into the shaming trap. For I cannot change others who shame by pointing out that they should be ashamed for shaming. God help me to forgive them and judge them not, that I may truly love them.
Is it your place to point it out though? Sometimes my children try to discipline and parent each other and I have to remind them to mind their own business and let me be the parent. I think this needs to be done more in the church- mind your own business, worry about your own sins and let the leaders privately/lovingly deal with the person when/if needed.
Great article! Thank you! I would like to also add the shaming that occurs when a member asks not to have three calling because it is too much but is then shamed into feeling that unless you make life completely miserable for yourself and your family, then you are faithless and will receive no blessings. The Mormon culture is notorious for creating more meetings and projects and expecting its members to jump at the chance to attend another meeting that takes away from family time. It's a culture that has been created and unfortunately you are shamed if you say that you cannot do something. To go along with what you said about the caste system; there is a culture that exists that if you are not a president of an organization or your husband is not in the bishopric then you are less of a member. To my knowledge we are all here to learn and grow; we are all a work in progress. The gospel is for eveyone!
Anyone feeling like this should listen to a talk by Michael Wilcox. I forget the name of the particular talk but he talks about that problem. He talks about how many worthy males are never called to those type of positions. It isn't because they are not worthy. I love how he says it though.
Or that a stake calling is more important than a ward calling (and the people who hold them).
Exactly! Saying you should never turn down a calling takes away your free agency.
That is a fallacy. That is like saying God telling us to pay our tithing is taking away our agency. We always have the ability to choose right or wrong. Even if the law tells us we can not do something we still have the chance to disobey the law.
I agree with Pauline's comment "Saying you should never turn down a calling takes away your free agency".and disagree with Jeremy saying that is a fallacy.
I had a stake president who told the large gathering in a ward conference class that you should never turn down a calling. If you are called to be the ward organist, and you don't play the organ, just learn. That stake president even went so far as to say that you shouldn't even pray about accepting any calling.
I shared with the stake president Second Nephi 32 verses 8 and 9:
8 And now, my beloved brethren, I perceive that ye ponder still in your hearts; and it grieveth me that I must speak concerning this thing. For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray, ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.
9 But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy performance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul.
That stake president was teaching people not to pray, thus he was listening to an evil spirit.
That stake president did not listen to me, and it took the Area Presidency to set him straight, but even then he never retracted his false teaching. It was actually the First Presidency who asked the Area Presidency to speak to that stake president on the issue, because as they explained, you do have the agency to turn down a calling and you yourself determine what to pray about. NOT the stake president.
So yes, if someone is telling you NOT to turn down a calling then they ARE seeking to take away your agency, and it is your right to not allow that.
While it is true that Matthew 7:1 states: "1 Judge not, that ye be not judged." if one reads the footnotes ones quickly finds that as the inspired Joseph Smith translation states, what the Lord ACTUALLY said was: "Now these are the words which Jesus taught his disciples that they should say unto the people. Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment."
The Lord told us to judge, and he has never changed that. The QUALIFIER is to judge righteous judgement.
So that was an un righteous judgment on the stake president's part part and a righteous judgment on my part....and he needed to repent.
As Elder M. Joseph Brough stated in last month's General Conference: Tolerating sin without correction is false compassion.
I did not have false compassion for that stake president. I corrected him and so did the First Presidency through the Area Presidency.
And as Elder D. Todd Christofferson stated, also at last months General Conference...Jesus was uncompromising in condemning hypocrisy. Love demands warning them.
Great comment and very true.
My biggest problem as a convert is watching people who are released from callings totally change in attitude towards others.
I have seen great Relief Society presidents in my ward who were wonderful in their calling. Once released the kindness disappeared and they would hardly utter a hello if we passed on the corridor at church.
This not only happened to me personally but to other sisters. I am still mystified by their behaviour.
Then there are the cliques within the church. I have always loved our annual sisters conference it was a pleasure to attend. However the "clique culture" has ruined it for me.
Walking in to our ward cultural hall last year with my teenage daughter to attend the sisters conference there was no friendliness. I wanted to turn and walk out again but I couldn't because of my daughter.
The cliques were together and it was clear me and others were not welcome to sit with them.
Instead I sat with some newly converted sisters who were so friendly to us.
So I ask myself does the caring and kindness end with the release from a calling? Was it ever real? I love the church and my faith and have to remind myself that's the reason I keep going every week.
Donna, I'm truly sorry you had this experience. I would just like to convey the experience of my friend, and hope it helps.
She was very much an introvert. She had been in the primary for the majority of her adult life, and she LOVED it in there. She loved the spirit of the children, the lack of judgement, and the eagerness to learn. When she was called as the RS President, she called me in tears. She knew it was what she was supposed to do, but she did NOT want to do it. She really wasn't a fan of adults. Over the next 2 years, I watched this wife, mother, employee, friend, and student pray and ponder over our ward. I watched her as she stayed up until 2 am to do homework, because she was out helping families all afternoon. I watched her skip dinner because a family was in need of a food order. She became the bigger, better, kinder person that you recognized in your own situation.
A Just over a year ago, our ward boundaries were rearranged and she was released from her calling. She *almost* went back to the person she was before the calling. Still somewhat introverted, not a huge fan of adults, etc. But I KNOW, beyond a doubt, she was not faking her way through those 2 years. I truly believe that through prayer and revelation, our Heavenly Father helped her to be the person she needed to be in order to fulfill such a stressful, time-consuming calling. Once she was released from those duties, she no longer needed to be that hyper-focused person and was able to relax back into her 'normal' self.
I love and appreciate your comment, Mary. I know this to be true from personal experience. I have had to strive against my introverted nature in many callings in the church. And I know that "the Lord qualifies whom He calls." Nevertheless, it sometimes takes tremendous (unseen) effort on our part. Altogether too often, brothers and sisters will interpret as "unfriendliness" a person's reserved nature. What a beautiful difference it would make if we all could presume the best of each other and be understanding of each other's strivings.
So sad. We have an exceptionally warm and welcoming ward but a neighboring ward seems to have had a clique problem for many years and I don't understand it. These are good people who try to do their best, what is dividing them? Several families have moved either to our ward or farther away beefier of that atmosphere. I guess the solution lies within each person looking within themselves and asking themselves hours they can be more loving and welcoming to one another.
Im not trying to bash the church but here are my experiences. I was raised in the Mormon church but as an adult, I have moved several times. I have gone to many Mormon churches and there is no welcoming, friendly feeling. Not the missionaries or anyone said anything to me the last 2 times I went to my local Mormon church. It is very sad. Even the ward I grew up attending had their cliques and so many judgemental people who acted like they were better. I attended other non Mormon churches where I just felt so welcomed and loved the minute I walked in the door. I really do feel this is a Mormon issue. I felt like an unwelcome outsider who was intruding.
I am a non Mormon but have many family members who are, and have been to many Mormon churches, and many events. I am a Christian. I can tell you first hand that I have NEVER felt welcomed at ANY Mormon church, nor do I
feel comfortable sitting in a church. I would run from any religion that would dictate what I where, or where I worship. My moral beliefs and personal relationship with God keep me on the straight and narrow. I could not even attend the weddings of
family members due to the secretive nature of the way the Mormon church is run. It is not loving, welcoming, or Godlike. I will say however, that the Mormons that I know are typically very nice people - the religion and the church itself needs work in my opinion
It’s actually a people issue. As I travel around the country, I’ve had the joy of attending countless wards. Some embrace you , invite you to dinner, or even beg you to join their ward. Others seem on the surface to be standoffish and introverted.
I’m old. Age has taught me that all people struggle with the demonstration of love. Some are just not demonstrative. I usually find that if I’M loving, they’re loving back. But if not, it’s not for me to judge. It should be against our religion to take offense. Nothing good comes of it. We are taught these principles. We’re just all imperfect at incorporating them.
Those that would prefer to be embraced when we move to a new ward (and who wouldn’t?!) have the responsibility of BEING that kind of member. Don’t wait to be loved. Be the person that extends it to all you meet. Reaching out will be it’s own reward.
We have lived all over the country and I find there are regional differences in people as well. Southern members of the church still behave like southerners. Midwest members still behave like midwesterners. People, member or not, behave in different ways in different parts of the country. Everyone seems to assume that whatever their individual experience was can be extrapolated churchwide. I find that comical given the reality of my experiences with so many U.S. sub-cultures. I can only imagine that becomes even more pronounced worldwide. We live in a rural branch right now in the northeast and it's hard because we have so few resources, but I wish everyone had this kind of perspective. We are so grateful for warm bodies that all pretense and judgement fall away. There is just no room for it when you're trying to keep an unit functioning.
I'm not sure where this comment will end up but I hope this is the correct place.
When I entered the Army in 1977, my first training was at FT Belvoir, VA. One of my classmates was also a church member. We were there for three months. About three years later we were back for our advanced course and were, again, in the same ward.
One evening after supper at their place, we talked about the ward. I commented that it seemed to change in the past three years. The first time we were there, the ward seemed distant though not unfriendly. My friend (Tim) asked how many new folks were in attendance. I told him there were a few but it was mostly the same folks and they seemed a lot friendlier. Then he gave me "the eye" and said they hadn't changed. . .
Many in that ward said the ward was very cliqueish, but my wife and I didn't notice it.
I have been in my current ward almost 30 years. We have had bishops AND stake presidents who were unloving and without compassion. But THEY WERE JUST PEOPLE. The ward, if you will has been "wandering in the wilderness for a big part of that time. It has been split twice. There is hardly a handful of the "originals" still around.
After all of this, my point is that if you want to be offended, feel unliked/unloved, don't want to be friendly, you have the agency to do so.
But if you want show Christ-like love, get off of your fourth point of contact and greet those who are new, unfriendly, smell of tabacco, have beards or long hair, have tats on their chest, are wearing a red shirt instead white, who are wearing glittering eye shadow with black mascara around their eyes, etc, etc, etc.
Hospitals weren't built for healthy people and Heavenly Father did not establish His church for the perfect.
This may sound harsh, but I have through a good bit of things mentioned in this post. I KNOW if we have the Savior as our light and guide these things will go away.
I've been a member all my life and have to deal with this. People are people. All you can do is look for the others who feel left out and help them feel loved. Continue being friendly and civil to those who aren't. You never know what might change. I think only a few are exclusionary. I think most, even in the cliques, might be shy abt making the first move. There are a lot more socially awkward people in the world than one would think. Its just hard reminding myself of that fact with the way just one or two people out of the entire congregation act.
What I believe "CJ" was referring to was Elder Holland's last quote: "In short, there is a place for everyone who loves God and honors His commandments”. Many members will take this statement as license that if people are not keeping all the commandments as they see them, there is no place for them.
There should be a place for everyone. Period.
I hear you, one could also infer Elder Holland's comment as to ensure that if you come to church with the intent to protest, be disruptive or disrespectful to God, then no, you aren't welcome. I would not want chaos in my own house much less the house of worship I attend. Read this and apply reasoning and common sense to my statement please. Coming to the Lord's House with any other intent other than to honor Him and striving to keep His commandments is disingenuous at best.
the article sounds bitter and pointing out the faults in peoplewithin the Church that have very human issues. We are all fallen and struggle to become closer to the Lord through the Church. There are many various ways in which each of us struggle to become closer to the Lord. To single out those who, in your experience have disapointed you is not the standard by which we measure members of the Church. All are at different understanding and practice of gospel principles.. This is the Church of Jesus Christ with love and redemption for all within and all who seek.
I respectfully disagree. Most of these points are things that happen in 90% of wards but many people don't realize they are doing them or assume that this is the way it is supposed to be and correct. For instance, many people insist on telling priesthood holders they must wear a white shirt. This is not doctrine but for many, this is the way it has always been. It is not necessary and there is no need to embarrass someone and remove them from passing the sacrament for not doing so. Do we really want to lose faithful members over a technicality with no doctrinal basis? Or a relative of mine marrying the stake president's son and suddenly begins acting and speaking as if she is better and higher than others (and continues to do so to this day). Causing people around her to feel inadequate and belittled. I could go on and I am sure most people would have appropriate examples for all four points but I think you get what I am saying. Sometimes an article like this is great for opening eyes so people can realize the difference between the gospel and the things that are tearing us a part and so we can be a more loving people.
Oh yes! This message is just what we need to ponder. What we all need to work to overcome. May the Lord bless our efforts.
Also, Lyn, thank you for your reply. I agree with you. This article can help us all, If we see ourselves thinking and behaving this way.
That this type of shaming occurs in 90+ % of all wards is telling. Yes, you can go to the temple with a full beard, but in order to be a temple worker, you must be clean shaven. Why? Does this not imply a clean-shaven face is more desirable to the lord? Is not the fact that all general authorities always wear conservative attire - essentially a uniform - does this not spawn the very narrowing that Mr. Holland is eschewing? You can't have it both ways: You cannot require your leadership to follow a dress code and not expect an adoring congregation to brow-beat their boys to dress like GAs every Sunday. It is a defining trait within the culture. If Mr. Holland wants to change the culture of acceptance, he should start by growing a beard...and not have to carry a note around at the flagship university, declaring that his beard is necessary for a dramatic production; again implying that this is a defining (and shame-able) virtue.
For a religion that teaches agency, it is very controlling in many aspects. I'm a member so I know of what I speak.
Agency is the ability to choose. The church does not control or force anyone to do anything. It merely says If you want the fullness of happiness, then use your agency this way.
Could not agree with you more. I really hope this blog post doesn't go viral. It's feeding the shame, but with a different approach.
How is it feeding shame?
Also, don't forget the proven believe that Utah Mormons (by Utah I include all of it's surrounding states) are unique in their isolationist and homogenous culture that differs from all other states in the union, or the world for that matter... the ordinary Utah Mormon is "peculiar" in the way he/she behaves/is and treats those who are not, or behave not like them... I won't go into details, but as beautiful as the state is, I swore never to come back after I left...
Sounds like this author is trying to shame me. Wants me to be like him and believe what he believes, and if I don't then shame on me. I think he has too much time on his hands.
That's a "shame." See what I did there? No? Sorry, I should keep my mouth shut... XD
Though I can see where you are coming from. When I read it, I realized the mistakes I made. It made me sad too. No one is perfect! XP
Oh course, I have my opinions too. I'm in and out as far as my belief is... but my personal trials are also kind of a blessing too.
You don't have to believe what others believe. That's the beauty of agency! 😀
there is a difference between shaming and calling to repentance. The former is done to elevate oneself by demeaning others, to exclude and try to make the person feel bad about themselves. The latter is done out of love, to offer help elevate the other person by encouraging one to improve their behaviour, but to still love the person. When we call a person to repentance, we are asking them to come to Christ. When we shame someone, we are trying to get them to stay away from us until they change. Calling someone to repentance means we think they are worthy of God's love no matter what they have done. Shaming someone means that we say they are unworthy of God's love and our association until they conform to our interpretation of obedience. I believe that the author of this article has effectively called all of us to repentance, not shamed us for shaming others. Perhaps if we are feeling uncomfortable with his message, we should examine ourselves first for the source of that discomfort rather than cast stones at the messenger. Everything Jeremy has said echoes what the prophets have been saying for years.
I agree! As Nephi spoke to his brethren hard things. It cut to the very core because they were true. If you are offended by what is spoken then that's sad. Jeremy meant no offense to people he was merely stating what he has witnessed himself and felt inspired enough to share. To call to repentance doesn't mean you have to do as they did in the scriptures and say, "repent, repent." One problem that I see is that it doesn't matter if it's a call to repentance or shame. It's taking offense to everything that someone says as if they inferred that message to be rude.
Do as was stated and use your agency to look at yourself before criticizing others for what they do. Yes, some will say I am a hypocrite. In some aspects ill agree, but I know where my weaknesses lie, Do you?
Love those around you despite the differences. Don't judge because others sin differently than you. If you find something hard to take in referring to what people say to look inward and seek out help through prayer and scripture. Apply to yourself its teachings and stop worrying about what others say or tell you. Yes, some people are in cliques, some people change (that happens to everyone whether for good or bad), some people judge others, some people act as if they are high and mighty, everyone is imperfect. So, in my opinion, get off your high horse and judgment seat and take a look at yourself and others around you and realize that we all need help. If you see these things in your life try to change them without hatred or judgment. Do it as a service for yourself and others. If you're too shy to do so work on them for yourself and you will be amazed at how many will see and follow suit.
Everyone is imperfect so don't complain just do.
"Look at yourself before criticizing others". Wow. That's an unbelievable statement and I have no doubt you believe every word. Pretty sure you shouldn't be criticizing others regardless of your own flaws. Mind your self and take care of those within your own home. Nothing else is required of you. "No success can compensate for failure in the home". Treat each other kindly, love more than you think you can and be a good person because it's the right thing not because it's "the Mormon thing".
I totally agree. It made me feel as though he was talking down to me. It was obviously written by a young person who has been infected with the current victimization ideology. Sad that he has to faultfind to make himself feel good about himself.
I could agree with everything you said, except for your choosing Harry Reid as an example. I have watched him in politics both before and after my baptism. He is not a good man. He did not follow the constitution while he was Senate Majority Leader. He refused to allow debate. He did more to increase the polarity between conservatives and liberals than anyone before. You yourself said we should live our lives so as to be known as LDS rather than as a beacon of our political party. Therefore, I cannot "like" this article.
I disagree with Harry Reid on almost 95% of political issues. But I recognize that he was a missionary in Congress passing out copies of the Book of Mormon, and he helped the church with visas and other issues. So like him or not, Harry Reid is a temple going member of the church.
I live in Vegas, and remember the Harry Reid incident. It was taking place during the middle of an election where he was running. Most of the people I know including myself didn't think it was appropriate for that reason. If it had occurred at any other time, even now I would happily go. The lack of context to me in that part of this post throws the rest of the post into question. If the author is not being forthcoming and is himself being judgemental of that situation without sharing full context and background what else is he being judgemental about?
I was not given that information. This story was shared to me by Al Fox (if I recall correctly, it was at the LDSBC and a lot of people shared stories).
Even then, it is one thing to disagree with the invite. It is totally another to threaten him. Plus, during elections, they often want to capitalize on politicians popularly to maximize missionary efforts.
And like I said earlier. I disagree with Harry on about 90% of political issues.
Although I agree with many of your points, I disagree with the Harry Reid example. I also live in Las Vegas and recall very well what happened. Ryan is correct. The fireside was in the middle of a campaign in which Senator Reid was running for re-election. There were many church members on the ballot that year, including one running for Senator Reid's office. It is true that many church members were strongly opposed to Senator Reid on political grounds, and a few were even planning to protest at the fireside. But, I believe that more of us were very troubled the concept of Senator Reid speaking at the fireside during a campaign because it seemed to make the church pulpit a political forum and maybe even suggest church endorsement of him as a candidate. Also, as I recall, the fireside was cancelled by the church and not for Senator's security.
As to your broader point, we judge too much and love too little. None of us is perfect, and we all bear reminding of the need to welcome people, listen more, and talk less.
I, too, struggle with my feelings about Harry Reid. He acknowledged that he lied to the American people about Mitt Romney when Mitt was running for President. It was such a huge lie that I think it influenced the outcome of the election.
I think we should all do our best to be Christ like and be kind to all that we come in contact with. Yes we ALL fall short of perfection but isn't that what the Atonement is for?
I was so sad to read this but it is a necessary, if not vital, reminder. Sometimes because a lot is expected of us, of me, we expect a lot of others. It's best to start at home and try to raise and be well rounded, kind people.
Absolutely! The family is central to the gospel of Jesus Christ. We have so much power to achieve good within our families.
Incredible article. Thank you for your insight on this topic. I read the comments and I have to say this: the tone in which you think the author wrote the article says more about you, the person commenting, than about the author. As for the quote by Elder Holland, I'd say it's on point: the greatest commandments are to love God and to love others, and that to me encompasses everything said in the article about not judging nor shaming others. Too bad some may see it as another "shaming" tactic.
Thank you for your comments. I totally agree.
This was an excellent post. I found the judgement and superiority so frustrating, watching it happen every week. I agree with every point you made and wish this was mandatory reading. Thank you
I agree with so much of this article, and I can't help but think of one of Pres. Uchtdorfs talks from the latest conference, about how perfect love casts out all fear. People use manipulation (such as shaming) on others because they are fearful and do not have perfect love. Imagine the strides our church would make if everyone possessed that perfect love? just a thought.
I must live in a bubble because I do not see any of this activity going on in my ward. I am an older single sister and the only member of the church in my family. Sometimes we create our own circumstances and then point the finger at others around us. I do not let being single stand in the way of saying Hi to everyone each Sunday. It doesn't matter to me what another's background is. We are all united in the Gospel and have the same goal of attaining eternal happiness if we are in church together each week.
Is being single in the church seen as being a blessing? Is being married and having a family seen as one? Yes or no? Is not going on your mission as a young man seen as a blessing? Is going on your mission seen as a blessing? Yes or no? Are you blessed by being homosexual? Yes or no? Are you blessed by using your ordained priesthood power? Are you blessed if you do not have the priesthood? Yes or no? Is one blessed if they drink alcohol? Yes or no? Is one blessed if they do not? Are members blessed if they do not go to church every Sunday? Are members blessed if they do? Yes or no?
Check. Check. Check. Check. Check. Check. Is a blessed person better than a person that is not blessed? How does one not naturally feel so?
Are people counting other people's blessings? So many blessings are spoken of by prophets. This will bless you. You have been blessed. Do those that do not follow the blessed life deserve shame? Is this article saying that the culture cultivated by past prophets is cancer?
Read: Faith Precedes the Miracle by Spencer W. Kimball, 1972
(the actual book, not just what other people's opinion about it)
Is our current prophet consistent with our earlier prophets' messages? Prophet?
Good deeds are rewarded. What is considered good in our Church? The prophets tell us.
There are blessings that we can and cannot receive and how each of us is blessed is up to the Lord. Not every person finds a mate nor are some capable of marriage or missions. The convert who joins the church after age 26 is not eligible to serve a mission untill much later in life. The paralized are not blessed to waalk, the blind are not blesses to see, thedumb are not blessed to speak.
The lack of a blessing that has yet to be received is no reason to be shamed. We are all in a special ed program custom taylored by our Heavenly Father to help us grow and progress. We may be a return missionary but that says nothing about the quality of our service. A missionary may have baptized 100 people by following a missionary who found and taught those people only to be transferred the week before their baptisms and ends up going home without a single baptism.
Sometimes the test and growth opportunities are in the waiting for the opportunity and the blessing that we have earned but are yet to receive.
By the way I was blessed to follow a fantastic finding missionary who found and started teaching several great families who I was lucky enougb to teach. His attitude was that on transfer day he would give me his list and tell me to not lose any of them. We made a great team yet were never companions-----or were we?
"Blessed" may be the single stupidest word along with the word sin that has ever been created by man. The blind are not blessed to see? You forget where these "blessings" come from. God cannot love one man over another. He does not love one sinner more than the other just because one man went on a mission and one did not. Going on a mission is not a "blessing" as much as being born without sight is the absence of a "blessing". It is a shameful way to look at the precious diversity of life. If the Church takes out the words "blessing" and "sin" from their vocabulary, the amount of human judgment will become minuscule and love will abound. There is only ONE blessing on Earth, and that is LIFE. Happiness comes from the gratitude of only this blessing and only counting upon this blessing and none others. If you are grateful for your gift of life, then happiness will follow and less harm will be done to others, for they have the ultimate blessing of life also.
What I tried to get across is the obsession our Church has with the shaming of not enough "blessings" as much as other churches have the obsession with the shame of "sin". Again, God cannot love one man over another. Stop teaching about "counting blessings" and start teaching more about the one and only blessing that everyone has and should cherish - life on Earth! Stop cherishing your baptisms and get to the point that you were given a life that ALLOWED you to do so through free will that you would not have had otherwise. You were given a life that ALLOWED you to make choices! Rejoice in knowing that other people share the same gift.
Stop counting blessings and start counting lives - the ultimate gift of God.
Stop counting sins and start counting choices - the ultimate gift of God and His Son.
No one should be left out of the Plan of Happiness due to what other people get in life and do not get.
I could not agree more with this article. Thank you!!
Nice shaming article.
Only if you want to be. I found it interesting and insightful. I also do not believe he meant to shame anyone, only sharing things he had witnessed. What I did find so very sad was the comments of some people on here who found that some members were unwelcoming.
This article is absolutely called for and so necessary. We are to feed His sheep, not drive them away, pick at them, and separate them.
Awesome! Thank you for so powerfully sharing what I have felt for years but have been unable to put into words.
My parents [no longer alive now] left the church years ago because they thought they were being treated badly. All of us children have remained faithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ & taught our children & grandchildren the same. One of the reasons for this is that we have always said: "Do not let anyone else determine your eternity-Except Our Savior-Jesus Christ & Our Heavenly Father."
It is extremely difficult to stay when the extended family you spend your entire life with decide to drop you as social friends, even going as far as being denied invitations to church events such as baby blessings, weddings, large multi-family home evenings, temple trips, etc. Taking part in the fellowship of other members is suppose to be essential in our faith, but it completely died. My wife and I noticed something change when every friend we had began having children. When my wife's church friends would brag or complain about their pregnancies, she would break out in tears, sometimes having to walk out of church because of the emotional toil. One day when two of her best friends told her they were pregnant, she walked into the hallway and threw up. Instead of offering condolences of any kind or even asking what was wrong, they began to ignore her. I thought I was being treated badly by my own extended family at the time, but my wife was accumulating emotional pain by the minute when she went to church or other church related events. She fell away first. I began having panic attacks every week during sacrament meeting after our bishop told me I wasn't being a good husband for my wife. When I told him the problem, all he could say was, "Brother _______, it is your job to get her to church every week." I then told him we had no friends in the church for nearly a decade and almost nobody, including himself never took the time to ask us if we needed anything, or if we were suffering. 'YES! PLEASE! We are dying here spiritually and emotionally without a single iota of social acceptance! We don't have a place in this church because people in the west are straight up COLD to those who don't fit that special clique.' In our case, it was the inability to produce kids. After years of inactivity, people inside and out of the family tried to bombard us with the new adoption fee waiver for current temple recommend holders. And yet again, they didn't know our problems, even when we tell them our EXACT problems. Their solutions were never about solving OUR problems. Our problems involved, and still involve crippling debt from trying to have our own children, a NECESSITY for happiness in the LDS church according to every mouth that wags up and down in sync with the hive mind. Our problems with being socially excluded from everything church related also paralleled with the debt that began to grow. Adoption was impossible for us financially. Even when people knew that, they recommended getting a credit card to pay for adoption. (Yes, I have heard this four times from ADULTS from church.) Unfortunately, many people at the bar next to my home have given me wiser advise on family matters and how to cope with the pain of complete social rejection. Because of the cliques so heavily accepted in the LDS philosophy, these blind members chase away so many great people while they hold onto their unrealistic expectations towards NORMAL individuals in and out of the church. I still have yet to be accepted. It doesn't matter what I do. As long as I don't have children, I will continue to be treated as such. I am certain many other sterile couples have suffered similar pains/rejections inside of the faith.
I have panic attacks now every time I go into a church. My choices for treating this heart-attack pain are addictive drugs via prescription, addictive drugs without prescription, or giving up church and leaving the phony 'friends' behind. I have never been happier not having to deal with the convoluted expectations or the added shame culture faux-Mormon beliefs from some uneducated know-it-all in the gospel.
But, even after all that negative reminiscing, I know I have it easy compared to many. The thing that makes me more sad/angry than anything else in our church is how our single women are treated. Our sisters are absolutely savage when it comes to judging other sisters...
I am so sorry to hear of your trials. I am sitting here in tears, praying for you and your wife. Don't ever, ever believe it when someone tells you that by doing what you think is best for her that you're a bad husband. Don't ever, ever think for a second that just because children isn't something God has given you that you are any less worthy of His love and acceptance. The road you're traveling is unimaginably hard, and most people have no idea the pain and suffering you two have endured together. God knows what you've been through, including the unthinkable words that have been spoken to you, and you are in His heart. I pray he blesses you both with peace.
You might enjoy the book "The Mormon Culture of Salvation", by a sociologist who analyzed and then wrote about Mormon culture. He spoke a bit about the "caste system", but in different terms, calling it a merit-based culture where people gained status by having lots of kids, etc. People who are unable to live up to the Mormon ideal of marriage (due to disability, an abusive spouse, LGBT issues) are often treated as "deviant" by other members and pay a social cost.
I'm sorry. Harry Reid outright lied about Mitt Romney, admitted it, was unrepentant has actively worked in opposition to actual doctrines of the church, supported abortion, and has done things that would make anyone question the idea of having him stand up as a role model. It has nothing to do with his politics and everything to do with his character. It doesn't justify the behavior of the members, but he was a poor choice for the meeting you referred to.
I do not personally like Harry Reid, but I also know that he is pro-life. Democrats know it is one area where he won't bend.
@Jon,
I knew Harry Reid for over 30 years. In a previous post, I explained my position regarding "politics" and men like Harry. It probably won't get shown here. In short, you are correct. Harry, and others like him who learn to lie for a living at the expense of hard-working taxpayers deserve no easy path to the Glory they seek., IMHO, Harry Reid should have been excommunicated for what he became....or maybe always was. I also am greatly disappointed in the leadership who propped him up and kept him in office when there were far better men to re[place him.
I suspect this is an attempt to make money based on the fear induced by these kinds of thoughts. I just don't see this trend at all. I see the opposite trend in our culture.
How would I make money off this?
You must be an ostrich.
@Jackson Pemberton,
Say what?
Excellent post! I grew up in Utah, and never really noticed these things happening, but now I live in Colorado and have been told by others that they feel shunned or ignored by members because they have tattoos, or smell of cigarettes, or have a colorful past. I would try to empathize with their feelings, but had a hard time wrapping my head around it. Then I found out first hand what they were feeling. I had sported a mustache from the time I was seventeen, (only shaving it off for my mission, Army basic training, and airborne school). One day I decided to grow a beard and a pony tail because I had never had one and thought it would be fun. It took a couple of years, but I eventually had a nice, long pony tail and a well groomed beard. A few members gave me a hard time about it, (including my Bishop) because I was the Sunday school president and should "set a better example". One brother really gave me a hard time about it, and one day as we were leaving gospel doctrine class, he made another comment. I gently pulled him aside, gripped his lapels, and said "I want to see the letter". He looked confused, and replied "what letter?". I then said "the one from the first presidency that says good members can't have beards and pony tails". He was taken aback, and stammered that he was only joking (I always knew he was, but I thought it would be fun to put the screws to him) and he was sorry. I patted him on the back and told him I knew he was joking. I never heard another comment from him, and we are great friends to this day. I had made my point quite well, I think, but I'm sure there are those who would have taken great offense from the comments of other members, even if those comments were well-intentioned or thoughtless. I just decided I wouldn't get too worked up about it.
Funny thing, seven months ago, I was asked to meet with a member of the stake presidency. He asked me if I would be willing to accept a calling as a counselor in the new bishopric. I paused a few seconds, then burst out laughing. A few seconds after that, I stopped laughing and said "wait....what?". He repeated the question, and my response was "are you sure?" He said they were sure, but I would probably need to shave my beard and cut my pony tail. Dang.... Needless to say, I accepted the call and I am now clean shaved and have a short haircut. I feel completely unqualified, inadequate, and totally lacking in the qualities I always thought someone in my position should have. I am, however, acutely aware of how someone who might not fit the traditional Mormon mold feels when they walk into the chapel or a classroom. I always try to go and shake their hand and let them know I am delighted to see them. If only the members of this absolutely awesome Church could try and see things from the perspective of others whose circumstances might not be "normal", I'm sure there would be fewer instances of those thoughtless actions or comments that make others feel unwanted or unwelcome. They should instead be welcomed with open arms, warm smiles, and loving acceptance.
Mark, while reading your post, I was excited about where I THOUGHT it was going, because I was imagining a counselor in the bishopric with a pony tail and beard. So may I ask you, where's the letter? Who/where does it state that you had to shave/cut hair off to serve in that capacity? And if it really is the case, why on earth is this still a thing? Just curious.
An entire bishopric in my mission had beards.
"In your personal grooming, follow the example of the living prophets". Russell M. Nelson, October Conference, 2003
Items #1 and #2 in action right there. I saw a bishop once make a big flap over a kid with hair that some might say was a bit too long. Ultimately the entire left the church. Over hair. Okay, so you can argue their testimony wasn't strong enough. NOT THE POINT. It was hair. What's more important, a developing youth or hair? Not sure you get it, B. Donaldson.
I have a beard and some nice hair growing at a length that I like. I keep my beard and my hair nicely coiffed and I too serve in a bishopric. My stake president never told me to shave or trim up my hair, but others have. I'm going to take a line from JayZ, and changing it a little, "I got 99 problems but a beard ain't one". Funny thing is when I don't dwell on my problems I seem to figure out how to solve them or they go away. Your sentence "If only the members of this absolutely awesome Church could try and see things from the perspective of others whose circumstances might not be “normal”, I’m sure there would be fewer instances of those thoughtless actions or comments that make others feel unwanted or unwelcome." is great and I would add one thing to it, a smile a hello and a handshake melts icy hearts better than anything. Perhaps the issues isn't in the external judging that seems to cause problems but in the why this takes place. Insecurities, fear and even envy play a greater roll in this than that just pure spite.
We are children of a Heavenly Father, each and everyone of us,and that should really play a greater roll in our lives than it typically does. There have been much, much more talks is conference lately that spell out that point and many others that in turn say to us be of good cheer, we should pay more heed to them. Good day.
This article is dead on , I felt the hate and divided groups from when I was a child. I.left at 18 from.the church and never turned back. I'm very happy...
God bless you all
Thank you for this. I think there are a lot of people who need to hear it.
This is an interesting article. I grew up in the LDS church - failed to be a good scout, failed to serve a mission, yada yada. I was out of there the second I left my parents' house. I definitely felt the scorn in the church growing up - long hair, bad kid, you know the stereotype. I remember going into Young Men's, bishop, leaders, all presents, when the head honcho of the priest chorum says, "Hey Jordan, when you just gonna come out and tell us you're gay?" Everyone gets a good chuckle - except me. Pretty much the pattern in that church. Anyone who doesn't fit the mold certainly is not welcome. I am not gay, I have never tried drugs or drinking, any of the stuff that they assumed. I am now married and am looking forward to raising my children outside of religion. I don't want to tear down your church because I know that it provides many people with comfort - but I have to say - stop destroying your youth. Stop with the chewed gum lesson - stop making them fear sex - stop forcing these kids to go on missions... TALK TO THEM ABOUT WHAT THEY FEEL. I was very close to suicide multiple times as a result of bullying AT CHURCH. I was afraid of going to Hell, I was afraid maybe I WAS gay, etc etc. No one ever talks to youth about this stuff because it's just blanketed as Satan's work and all you have to do is "keep the faith." Well, I prayed my whole life and begged for help but never got one answer from the man upstairs. All we have in this life is the people around us, and it's just funny because for being the one true church that has all the answers, those people are the worst of all.
Man, my life mirrors yours a lot. I felt the scorn and bounced at age 17. Raised my 3 kids without the brainwashing. our advice for them on handling their youth is spot on. And I was raised by Stake Patriarch, Stake Presidents, all mormon family.
Jordan my eyes nearly popped out of my head when I read “Hey Jordan, when you just gonna come out and tell us you’re gay?” I couldn't believe how unkind that person was. They should try our branch than. Many of the people just don't fit what is supposed to be normal and some are too poor to have 'regulation' clothes. I've seen them turn up in short, T shirts and flip flops that were a couple of sizes too small. Some don't see what difference 'regulation' clothes make to a person's understanding of the gospel. Very few of the brothers ever wear a tie and hey I could go on but that doesn't matter. What does it say in the hymn
"As I have loved you love one another, this new commandment love one another, by this shall men know ye are my disciples, it ye have love one to another."
Don't get me wrong we have problems, however we are all, hopefully, a very welcoming bunch of people. I should know I'm not from this country and my command of the language is dismal yet they are still happy to see me and if I've felt like I didn't really want to go one Sunday, well when I get home I've always been glad that I did.
I wish you well and God Bess to you and yours.
The more and more i think about this article, the more I feel the need to make a comment regarding these points.
1. A Mormon Caste system? Seriously? That is to assume that we have been born into a certain station in life and there is nothing we can do to change it. You used the wrong wording, because even your examples don't prove a "caste" system. Might their be comparisons? Sure. Are they wrong? Absolutely! But the fact that you are writing this blog post means that you are in the same wrong as these others, who compare and judge, and I in turn am in the wrong for comparing and judging this article. Its a cycle, Christ is the perfect and only judge, and the rest of us are sinning when we point out another's moat but ignore our own beam. (While Elder Christofferson is just a man, sharing an endowment session with an apostle and an NFL quarterback would have been special. And there is nothing wrong with pointing out the significance of the moment).
2. Yeah I got nothing to say here. Growing up my dad always harassed me to wear a white shirt because "what color shirt do the apostles wear," to shave my beard, because the apostles don't have beards, etc, etc. But there came a point when I said, "Dad, is my priesthood authority restrained by the color of my shirt, or my facial hair?" Of course the answer is No. But he still harasses me as an adult. I think we have to get to a point where we recognize everyone has to have their own personal standard for their life that they are comfortable answering for, and someone else's opinion just doesn't matter. (No defense for the people being rude in the temple, i got nothing there. Just hopefully your continued example to your boss will make him think those people were the exception, not the rule).
3. Never personally seen this, so I won't say much about it, except I agree. God is love, not republican or democrat.
4. Not a fan of your Harry Reid example. I mean we believe that people have the right to protest. This was a fireside, not a Sacrament Meeting. If the members of the congregation didn't want to hear the man speak, they have a right to voice that opinion. (Mind you, if any physical harm was being threatened, then the members were totally in the wrong). Other than that, this point is spot on, as is the conclusion.
Just my two cents
There were threats. That is why the secret service forced him to cancel the fireside.
You say that transgender people are welcome in the church. However, if a member has had transgender surgery, it is grounds for excommunication according to the Handbook. Converts who have had transgender surgery may be baptized, but their record is annotated so that the person can never be ordained or enter a temple. This must be explained to them before baptism. Everyone is welcome to sacrament or other public meetings of course. Just so you know.
wow! That is exceptionally exclusionary and bigoted! I wonder what year the church will backtrack on that. Colored peoples not being allowed the preisthood until the late seventies comes to mind.... #wrongsideofhistory
Another division within the Church is members in Zion (primarily Utah, but also other areas in the Intermountain West with a high concentration of LDS in the general population) vs. members in the missionary field. I confess to, at times, adopting an attitude of disdain toward "Utah Mormons" (or could it really be pride or even jealousy?), thinking it's harder for us to live the gospel when we're a minority of the local population. If it's harder for me to live the gospel "out here", then my "worthiness" must be several times that of a "Utah Mormon". Definitely, ALL should be welcome, no matter where we are.
The more we look on the outside the more we become less Christlike, from a testimony I have I know that no debate, no finger pointing, no gossip, no shaming, no judgement can help us come together in unity as members of this TRUE Church and humans.
I've been a member for 5 years now, have I experienced rudeness? Yes. Did I live the Church? No. Why? Because Heavenly Father and Christ restored this Church for ALL who live and will live on this earth and NOT for perfect people so if you "expect a place with perfect people its not the 'Mormon' Church."
I personally know this Church is true (Spiritual confirmation) not by logic.
If you are a person who knows or are still desiring to know and believe that this is Christ's Church than you will never leave this Church with a reason of someone offending you, we all have weaknesses and its our duty to work on them and help others as we go.
Ours is to love, forgive, advice (not jugde) , encourage, do everything that will help others feel worthy of Gods blessing, we are to be an example of how Gods love is, not the opposite.
And finally whether you are a member or not this is true in all aspects and I know because I wasn't born in the Church, "wickedness never was happiness." Alma 41;10 and God delights in righteousness.
N.B. if you feel offended by my thoughts judge me if you must, however the Church is perfect and just, us members are heeding the invitation to "come unto Christ and be perfected in Him." Moroni 10:32
And He has promised us that we will find Rest from all sorrows and pains and quarrels of this world if we TRULY COME UNTO HIM (Matthew 11 : 28-30)
I quote scriptures as a Testimony that this Is the Church of God and what our prophets are saying are what was warned in scripture and they serve to remind us and inform us on what God has to reveal.
Agency is vital, best when used wisely.
Thank You! Reading through all the comments, I just wanted to shout, "People are human! They are fallible! They make mistakes and always will! DUH!".
Attend church to worship, not socialize. (e.g., who cares if there are cliques, or status plays. Where there are humans, there will be unpleasant-to-you behaviors...always...everywhere).
Follow gospel teachings because YOU want to.
Study scriptures and pray to develop YOUR OWN source of guidance from the Lord. The true gospel of Christ is between YOU and GOD.
Kwitcherbitchin.
Great article indeed. In the caste system paragraph, "US Mormons vs. non-US Mormons" could have been mentioned too. The excessive ̶p̶a̶t̶r̶i̶o̶t̶i̶s̶m̶ nationalism of some of our brothers and sisters in the Gospel sometimes makes us foreign Mormons feel like we are second choice.
#3 is just not true. God is a libertarian. Proof? Look what God allows. He's a libertarian BIG time. All of the scriptures essentially say to leave other people and their property alone.
Harry Reid has been a pathological liar and enemy to many principles of the gospel while in the senate. I doubt anyone actually threatened that liar. He has behaved like a gadianton robber. He has helped the abortion industry. He has attacked our constitutional rights. He loves manufacturing persecution from within the church, which he falsely claims is all partisan in nature. Let me tell you about REAL persecution.
“We must not be guilty of persecuting anyone inside or outside the Church.”
Elder Dale G. Renlund
Well since the church is a full time persecutor of the polygamists, and that feel good article didn't even MENTION being kind to polygamists, who are right in front of our faces in Utah, I think that highlights the hypocrisy.
My stake president has spent most of this year trying to shame me. He got me convicted for going to the capitol and protesting bigoted, persecution oriented legislation that OBVIOUSLY the brethren supported (HB99). He brought up my presence at the capitol, then after I was out of the room, introduced two new charges, one being that I had supposedly "advocated polygamy" {by being at the capitol} and the lackey high council actually convicted me of charges never shown to me. It just doesn't get any worse than that. This very nasty stake president told me in an interview that he wouldn't talk ANY doctrine with me, but bullied the high council into actually convicting me of supposedly teaching false doctrine AFTER supposedly having been counseled on doctrine. Total lies. It all started when I trusted him and reported shockingly abusive and ongoing behavior by my bishop. I was instantly labeled as "not sustaining" my bishop. The more I reported to him, the more he treated me as "apostate." Just avoid stake presidents. Their offices are NOT safe places. Always take a second person with you. The whole culture of this church is now about demeaning members who think.
Then how do you explain how in the Book of Mormon sin was criminalized? Or how the church is against legalization of Alcohol and Pot?
I came here specifically to make your original comment. God is a Libertarian. The proof is that we followed Jesus' plan and not Satan's.
yeah, well, Joseph Smith was a communist. What's your point? I think everytime one of you radical republicans opens your mouth it is to demonize the left and call them sinners. Proves Brother's point entirely.
If we should'nt make a judgment on people such as Harry Reid than why do we vote that any person can serve in various capacities. ya or nay?? If we know why a person should not serve in a particular capacity we can say nay. If I was in Harry Reid's ward, knowing his political bent, I would vote nay for him. I would not want him teaching my children or even anything in the Church. The influence he had over this Country I would not want him perpetuating in the Church because much of what he represented in his government role was anti what we believe in the Church such as abortion. If we should'nt make judgments then we should'nt vote on people.
Thanks, Nancy, for making me rethink what the "sustaining vote" means. More than voting, one is committing -- committing to sustain (e.g. help) individuals called by God to fulfill a responsibility. If a congregant knows of a particular sin or misdeed committed by the person presented that would interfere with the calling, the congregant should oppose. But, a dissenting vote may not preclude the individual from being set apart. The "vote" would simply give the congregant an opportunity to speak with the presiding authority, the stake president, or his designated representative. I'm sure the authority would appreciate hearing the congregant's concern. It is possible that the person would not end up being set apart based on your further information. But, most times, a dissenting vote reflects the congregant's discord with the will of the Lord, as we see with the hecklers at General Conference.
As you know, dissenting votes are rare (at least here in all meetings I've attended, mostly in the Southeastern US). But, your comment made me reflect on the "vote" part of "sustaining vote". I usually think more about my part of the handraising - the "sustaining" part. On the other hand (get it, "hand"? :)), if a significant portion of the congregation were to indicate dissent, I wonder if the authority would take that back to the Lord in earnest prayer. Maybe the Lord relents as he did with what became the lost pages of the manuscript. Or, maybe it results in excommunications of some of the dissenters. Though it's hard to imagine a day where a significant portion will cast a dissenting vote on some name or motion presented, I fear it will soon come.
I think of the refrain "teach them correct principles and they govern themselves". It also reminds me that we give a license as we cast our sustaining vote: the license for the person presented to have some influence in our lives - to lead us in some respects. I think of Doctrine & Covenants section 121, describing how that license of influence is earned:
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.
45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.
46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.
Granted, none are perfect in the characteristics above. But, we trust that the Lord has called the individual through one of his servants. We may know of the individual's faults. Yet we help them in their weakness -- that's part of "sustaining" them.
Yes, we make judgements all the time. We know that we should not judge unrighteously. But, our judgements will not always be right. I don't know the details of that fireside and I have an extreme disgust of Reid's politics. But, I would *trust* that the stake president had sought out the right speakers and set boundaries for the talks (i.e. no campaigning) and that he'd hold the speakers to those boundaries. If the president didn't pick the right speakers and had some sad political motivation, that's on him, not me. I know I'd have been blessed for attending. No need for threats and contention. I'm sure it wasn't offered up as a referendum. The "dissenting vote" should have simply been expressed by not attending the fireside or stepping outside for that portion.
Nancy, thanks for causing me to reflect on what "sustaining vote" means. I'm sure it was TLDR. But, it got *my* wheels turning.
What a wonderful reminder. There have been several talks given on this subject as of late. We all need to be accepting of others no matter where they are in their progression, how they dress, what they believe. The truth is, often times we will find that when we meet someone that doesn't fit the mold and we give them the opportunity to share their thoughts we become the students and are richer for it.
Most of this post simply explaining challenges with normal social behaviors in all large groups and organizations not just the LDS church. This author and many others unfortunately have stepped into the realm that I call judging those who judge. Which is just as wrong. It is the group that sits back and condemns those who engage in bahvior they deem as bad and wrong and cast their own stones. Somebody doesn't say hi to you at church, or even better no one says hi to you at church. Here is a concept, how many people did you say hi to? How many people did you reach out to? How many people walked out of the cultural hall thinking the same thing, that nobody was nice and welcoming and put you into that same group that you are putting them into. The unfriendly, clique infested ward. This article is not calling to repentance, it is cast i ng judgement on people who at least are there trying right? At least that's what we say about those are we perceive as being judgedas well. So stop judging, from either side. Both are wrong. Just stop it. Love as the Savior loved, everyone is in their own place and live them to a better place of that is what they need.
Cultural commandments are rotting us from the inside.
Word of Wisdom is a cultural commandment. "To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days" Doc & Cov 89:2 Not by commandment or constraint but all members are now constrained by it or, rather, part of it.
No tattoos. The topical guide refers one to read scriptures on the sanctity of the body. The ONLY reference to tattooing comes from Leviticus 21:5. If that verse's condemnation of makings "cuttings in their flesh" (which still isn't tattoos) then the rest of the verse needs to be followed too (even if it is Mosaic Law) and that means no shaving your head bald, nor shaving/trimming beards.
Cultural commandments, we are fools following fools in this.
Both of these topics have been addressed in General Conference. And by the Prophet. The Prophet speaking in General Conference is as valid as Jesus Christ Himself. D&C 1:38
Therefore these are not cultural commandments but commandments from God.
Absolutely. .The BEST read since General Conference..may the blessings of our Father, whom you know quite well rest upon you..again I thank yoh
I'm sure your intentions are good, but you do understand that agency is a big factor involved in all of this, right? I think there's a general misconception that just because things are taught within the church, that it's fully understood and practiced by all members. Should everyone strive to be more Christlike and love? Absolutely. But is everyone imperfect and at different levels of developing this? The same is just as true. Our agency makes it impossible for anyone to be at the same exact spot on their path to return to Heavenly Father, therefore, there will always be members who don't exercise Christlike love in different circumstances. I've had my share of negative experiences with church members, but the truth is, those negative experiences helped me identify my faults and flaws that are keeping me from loving people when they are unkind. You need to learn how to forgive people, love them despite their flaws, and find gratitude in the opposition that you face with members of the church, brother. It's about the love you give, not the love you receive.
These are not social issues that were created by lay members of the church. This is all cultural stuff that has been in existence in the church for a long time, and it originated from the top. I'll site a few short examples, but I could write for hours on this topic.
First off the caste system. This was not invented by the congregations. This was invented by the leadership. Have you ever heard the phrase, "Once the prophet has spoken the thinking has been done." Obedience, obedience, obedience is something that has been pounded into us from day 1. "Follow the prophet, don't go astray." Bishops are appointed judges in Israel. Our very membership in the church can hinge on whether a group of men in our neighborhood 'judge' that we have done something that violates the standards of the church.
Next, cultural commandments. Once again, this is top down, not bottom up. Temple presidents will not allow those with beards or mustaches to work in the temple. Students at BYU cannot take a test if they haven't shaven that day. It's interesting that the author of the Word of Wisdom would be in violation of the church's current standards regarding this issue. If Joseph Smith were alive today, he would be barred from temple attendance, based upon his own documented practice of the word of wisdom up to the day of his death. Once again, this is a top down problem, not bottom up.
I could go on, but you get the picture.
Obedience does not mean a caste system. Even more so for the fact that a Stake President can be released and become a nursery leader. Whereas I have had leaders who liked the idea of a caste system from my interactions with the Apostles I have NEVER once felt like I was underneath them. But I have had other leaders who made me feel that way. So the institution of the church does not promote it, localized leaders might not follow the structure and thereby fall into this trap.
I would be willing to bet that you still address that nursery leader as President Jones. Emeritus Seventies are still addressed as Elder. Bishops are bishops for life, even after they are released and their keys removed. You can disagree all you want, but this isn't really an opinion issue. The demand for obedience does indeed create a caste system. It exists in the workplace, in families, etc. The difference is that within the church, we don't choose our congregations. They are neighborhood based, which creates a hierarchy within the neighborhood. Whether or not that is a good thing can be debated, but the fact that it exists because of the structure of the church cannot.
I really wish this was preached more in our wards and stakes. It's like some members have regressed back the 1940's and 50's where everyone was a 'Commy' if they didn't think, feel, or act the same way as everyone else. It's so ridiculous to point out, that in order to be true followers of Christ, you have to love ALL of God's Children, you know...everyone, regardless of race, creed, political persuasion, etc.
Thank you for posting this.
I am actually a big fan of shaming. Shaming has been for eons a way for society to enforce cultural norms. Example: it used to be that promiscuous girls who got pregnant were sent to live somewhere else until they had the baby ,who was then quietly given up for adaption to a family who really wanted a child and had the resources to raise it in an intact family
with a committed father. Today, the girl coddled and is given a baby shower, and the BABY ends up being raised by his or her grandparents who should be enjoying their empty nest years.
If you were in a room and OJ Simpson walked in, would you stay and go shake his murderous hands? Or would you walk out and shame him?
There are times for shame. Having a baby out of wedlock is not a "lifestyle choice. " It is a crying 'shame' for the child to have such an uncertain start in life when the virtues Christ taught us are ignored. The child ought never be shamed. Nor should the victims of rape or incest. But, people who don't follow commandments should feel guilt and shame. You are free to act, but not to choose the consequences of those actions.
As the sister of one who had a baby out of wedlock, I would hope that instead of treating a young woman with disdain to teach her she ought to be ashamed, you would reach out a hand in kindness. Being kind doesn't mean that you agree with what has happened, but it's really not your place to decide what shame and guilt should befall that person since you have no clue what is going on in their life. They likely already feel it without your judgmental attitude. The Atonement is for all. Plenty of judgment was passed on my sister - very little love was extended in her greatest time of need.
"If ye have done it to one of the least of these, your brethren, ye have done it unto me." my own two cents
Lorenzo I agree and I also believe that it also means that if you treat others badly you are treating the Saviour badly.
When I joined the church, I expected to find heaven on earth, especially when I moved to Utah to go to BYU. Instead, I found disillusionment. Nothing was the way I expected. I still knew the church was true, but the people really scared me. Then I went in the Air Force (this is during Vietnam). I heard stories of miracles that saved the lives of members of the church; and I heard of the hundreds of members who died. I was very confused. I fasted and prayed for years (not continuously) and finally I got an answer, which I was not expecting. The answer was: "It's none of your business." Each person must work out their own salvation. We work on ourselves and help others as much as possible. The church is here to guide us and help us, but it is only as effective as the people in it.
You are doing exactly what you are complaining about!! Get over yourself!! None of us are perfect and that includes you!! You are judging all of us and seeing Mormon culture through your tinted lense!!
Some of this stuff does happen but not to the extent you are implying!
How about writing something positive and uplifting instead!
I loved this article. It gently pointed out shortcomings of some members of the Church without stereotyping us all. It opened my eyes to so many 'little nit-picky' things that I may be guilty of without even realising it. God loves all his children. We should too.
This is a very good, thought-provoking article. If it's not, it should be. We should each read it and ask: "Is it I?"
This is an accurate article as I compare it to the comments from my Mormon fiance of 3 years. I have heard her make these same comments several times But as an EV I have to take exception to your conclusion.
"We like to talk about how everyone needs the church"
From an EV's perspective, everyone needs Christ.....we do not need a church to receive the best He has to offer us.
"we need the ordinances and blessings that are offered only within the organization of the Church."
No ordinances or works are required for us to be blessed by the Lord....only faith in who He is and what He as done. We don't have to work to be in his favor. Do your kids have to work to be in your favor? There is nothing we can do to make Him love us more that he already does. God is not a respecter of which church you belong to.....he is a respecter of where your heart is.
A big one from my fiance is "the Church needs you to help build the kingdom". If God wants the Mormon gospel to grow, he doesn't need anyone's help. He is omnipotent and omniscient. Mprmon's think Heavenly Father/Jesus Christ needs help doing things.....He's GOD!
But everything else seems to be very accurate from listening to a person who was a member for 48 years.
I was asked to be in the primary presidency. I turned it down. My life was in a place where I felt like I could not be a reliable member of the presidency. The president who called me has shamed me since.
A few years later, I was a primary teacher. Things were great for a while then I became pregnant. Getting out of bed to get to church became too much. I asked to be released. Word spread between the primary leaders and all other females in the ward in my age group (20's and 30's women with younger families). Literally no one in my age group talks to me. Shame is real and makes it hard for me to go to church or being willing to accept future callings.
Thanks for putting into words how I have felt for years! I think the behaviorsame described come from a member's own insecurity.
There is a lot that has changed in the church today, from, say, the days of Joseph Smith or even Ezra Taft Benson. I think in a lot of ways we would be better as a people if we rigorously studied the scriptures more. There is a new belief system developing that seems to dovetail right in with political correctness. Meanwhile, Christ in the scriptures was bold in calling out sinners! Call me an old backward guy, but a lot has been said about gay mormons,... I don't understand it. It's been said that the church is like a repair facility so that imperfect and broken individuals can be fixed. That's true, but perpetually living as gay and not planning to change, isn't that like going into the repair facility but never attempting any repair? Yeah, I should probably be driven out for my last generation mindset, but there is right and wrong, and if we can't speak out against wrong then why even have a repair facility?
If I stood on the street corner with a sign that said, "Abort your baby now", should I lose my membership? Yes. Then why hasn't Harry Reid lost his?
I would say it's more of a stateside problem.
I think my problem with this post is pointing out all the problems with the people and then saying it's only in the Mormon church. Cliques and people who act better than others are everywhere. Any church you go to most likely will have people like that, and even if you simply go to a group activity out of any religious area there still is going to be that. I do agree that everyone should treat everyone as a child of God, since we are, and we have been commanded to treat eachother as so. But simply saying that this shame culture is only within the church (that's how it comes off, anyway) seems completely false. Culture, politics, personal views, anything of that sort of course is going to divide people just because that's how people work. It is not the Mormon church that has these problems, but people themselves. Be them within the church or not.
Huh, interesting. He is telling us to be kind and not judge by being unkind and judging us all as a group. We are all just mortals doing the best we can. I think we should all just give each other the benefit of the doubt.
Thank you for this.
This reminds me of days of old as written in the B of M how people become prosperous and lack humility. I also know many of us do mean to be be offish and unfriendly. I hadn't two extremes growing up in two different wards in UT. 1- people would not speak to us as kids coming without our parents because they were inactive. 2- then moving into a ward that literally loved my parents right back into the church. I wish everybody could experience what I did and what I learned About love unconditionally.❤️️
We should all say "Lord is it I?" as the Apostles said to Jesus. Don't bemoan an unfriendly ward, become an unofficial greeter, make everyone feel loved. There are more people out of the Cliques in the ward than those in the cliques. I have seen warm and accepting people change an entire ward. Sit next to a different person every week. Make sure you greet every new face. Love everyone unconditionally.
Amen. In my last ward no one greeted people. So I started doing it. Someone asked if I was called to do it? I replied, "Yes, I was baptized."
"Each of you has a role in building the Kingdom. Christ died for you as much as he died for anyone else. "
I love this article! I've had a chronic pain illness for over a decade. I'm seeing doctors to try and figure it out. I've been sick through 4 different bishops in my ward. I get occasional visits, but not really support. For sure not the support I got when I was active. I thought I had friends in the ward. I got sick and that was the end. I am still fighting the pain, but when I do go back I hope to be the change I want to see in the world instead of judging these people. I have tried hard not to judge them, but I feel a bit disconnected and lost.
All you're doing in this post is lending credibility to their idea that the church (and in this case, its members) are broken/defective/unworthy. You're taking the exact same moral high ground against the "Latter-Day Pharisee" crowd that your are accusing the "Latter-Day Pharisees" of taking against others. You wrap it in a lot of warm and fuzzy "we are all brothers and sisters" talk, but clearly, you are separating yourself from the "Mormon culture" ilk. Seems a bit (a lot) hypocritical to me.
SaltyRachel would be proud of you.
These aspects of Mormon culture have no redeeming value. I have not attacked members but the culture. And remember even Jesus cleansed the Temple casting people out. And he repeated called out the Pharisees and Sadducees. So don't pretend that it should be sunshine and lollypops.
You missed my point. Let me be more clear: You are demonstrating Pharisaical behavior to call out those who don't welcome visitors (or wear short skirts, etc.). You want to put yourself in the Jesus role of deciding who to judge (the latter-day Pharisees) who's sin is putting themselves in Jesus' role of deciding who to judge (those who don't comply with real or imagined standards).
Yes it's a maddening circle/cycle. All I'm saying is that everyone (including you) feels entitled to put yourself at the pinnacle of the judging pyramid to call out those who aren't complying with what you feel is wrong.
But that's not the worst part. The worst part is that this type of article gives a voice to all of the marginal Mormons (that is, those who are most fragile in their membership) and allows them to say "See, you are right! The Mormons DO suck!" Look a the comment by "K" (just saw it on my email) who is now piling on with his own story of how his family was chased out of the church.
Your response to the above: Right! That's why we have to expose this Mormon culture problem! So we can fix it!
Okay, fair enough. But you already cited 444 (approximate number) General Authorities have already told us this same thing and the problem still exists. That's not a reason to ignore the problem. But I'm telling you--this post does more harm that good. It legitimizes the idea that the members are horrible (and yes, that is what your article is suggesting) and allows the huddled masses of disenfranchised internet Mormons to pour more gasoline on their fires.
Stated differently: You're part of the problem here, not part of the solution.
I'm not saying you're purposefully doing this, but it's true.
There is a better way to handle this problem.
But it is not true. I've had dozens of people email me, or leave comments on my fb page saying this opened their eyes to how they were shaming other people. It is doing good. I've even had NON-members email me saying this helped so much.
It's a difficult topic to discuss, but I'm glad you haven't shied away from it. I think too many people either look the other way because it's uncomfortable or choose to dismiss their poor behavior outright. I've been a member all my life, and the truth is I've been marginalized, judged, ignored, bullied, and shamed. But it's also true that I've marginalized, judged, ignored, bullied, and shamed others at times too. I was usually quite defensive of my behavior when someone else pointed it out to me, just have some people have gotten defensive with you. In hindsight, I'm glad it was pointed out, though. I wouldn't have changed if no one ever called me out on it. When I think that I could still be looking down my nose at people who I've decided don't come up to my lofty, self-righteous standards of holiness even today, it makes me that much more grateful that someone had the courage to tell me (in so many words) to quit being such a pompous, mean-spirited jerk. Not everyone is going to appreciate your article, but if it resonates with someone enough to affect a little more kindness and empathy from them, then it's worth it.
Your not listening Jeremy. Stop before you go to far
Great writing! There are some glaring typos that drop down the credibility quite a bit. Speaking of "quite," check your spelling on “BE QUITE IN THE TEMPLE!” (Thank you)
Also, how many things are wrong with that Holocaust quote??
“Holocausts, are caused not only by atomic explosion. A holocaust occurs whenever a person is put to shame.”
~Abraham Joshua Heschel
1) Nobody has ever once intimated that holocausts are only caused by atomic explosions.
2) Why is there a comma after "Holocausts"?
3) Back to atomic explosions, has there even ever been a holocaust by an atomic explosion?
4) What on earth does a holocaust have to do with a person being put to shame? Those concepts are unrelated except in the most loose metaphorical sense.
5) We're talking about holocausts and none of this seems to be vaguely aware of The Holocaust, despite the fact that the author has a very Jewish name. What is even going on here??
Thank you for your wonderful thoughts and for sharing this!
It was just a quote on shame that was shared in my institute class and I liked it. Thanks for the heads up on the typos, I do try to proof read.
Even the high ups in the Church discriminate and issue edicts that are discriminatory often quoting rules or commandments that DO NOT exist. Take a Native American male who has long hair that is always kept neat and attractive. He is a WORTHY Temple Recommend holder, active in the Church AND an RM but because he has long hair he won't even be considered for employment within the Church when he is more qualified than the guy they hire. I have seen this time and time again and according to the various supervisors who do the hiring, "it's church policy straight from the top."
The Gospel is true, even if the people are not. I've got horror stories that I could share about people working on temple square abusing power. But, I've never had a negative experience from one of the Apostles or the Propeht.
I have not been to a church of any kind in over 13 years. I converted to the church when I was 18 and I did meet some wonderful people, but I also met incredibly judgmental people who made me feel inferior to them because I was a convert and had experienced things that the church does not allow and I did struggle with the words of wisdom. I didn't think my loving and forgiving Heavenly Father would turn his back on me for having a caramel cappuccino every now and then. I was especially harshly judged by the young single men of the church. It was one bishop who turned me away from the church. I was in need of a lot of help. My living situation was about to become nonexistent and the only choice left to me was moving in with my boyfriend. We had a 2 bedroom apartment and were not doing anything wrong, but I was told by the bishop I asked for help that if I was going to act like a whore, I could figure out my own problems. That broke me. I eventually married my boyfriend, but we lost our apartment, a job, and a car because we could not receive help.
if you don't think shame exists in the Church, try being a divorced male in the Church. For example it's really weird because you can't ever serve as a YSA Bishop and you have to wait 20 years afterwards to even be considered to serve as a family ward Bishop. It's doubly odd when you think that if you remarry and later die and are faithful you can become a God, you can become a God but not a Bishop. People say well, obviously why would anyone want to become a Bishop and it's true. I've heard general authorities say that you don't get to heaven by the callings you have yet if callings don't make a difference why the stipulations then? What's more is I was talking to a High Priest, who's been divorced, in my stake and he hasn't ever served as a Bishop while all of his friends have and sometimes twice. I told him there was a guy in the Stake that is also divorced and is currently serving as a Bishop but he got divorced prior to joining the Church about 12 years ago. Well, he flipped out and are there gradations of divorce or something? it's okay if you are a convert but God forbid it happens after you've joined the Church? I don't get it. Besides of which being divorced has caused me to lose all confidence in Patriarchal Blessings and priesthood blessings and basic trust in Church leaders. I just go to Church now for the ordinances and maybe i'll meet some! doubtful but you can always hope!
I'm divorced and I know exactly what you're saying.
That's unfortunate. I'm sorry.
My brother is also divorced - his wife left him "mid-life crisis". He's now remarried and sealed in the temple again.
I think too many tend to work under steryotypes and assume that divorce is always because of a "deffective" husband.
For me, I never married until I was 40 and so there was obviously something wrong with me -- though I was active and served in mutliple callings, including a full-time mission. I didn't go to BYU and faithful young ladies was a rare thing in my area.
I'm just saying, I understand what it is to not be a normal male in the church, but I know its true and so I have never quit. I'm glad you didn't either.
There seems to be a spate of Mormon lifestyle bloggers lately complaining about how judgemental and self-righteous the members of the church are. They make some good points, but I feel like these bloggers fail to see the irony in the way they write about these problems with the same judgemental attitude and self-righteous tone which so concerns them.
Yes, we all need to work on some things. Yes, a few problems are rooted deeply in church culture. But you won't persuade those who most need your advice without some humility and a slightly softer touch.
I disagree. The members I know would not even realize they are doing these things. You can't soft pedal this. Life long members generally have become so insular. I went to a college ward and the professors were the worst offenders. The smug, holier than thou, self righteous, condescending behavior was so thick you could cut it with a knife. Yet they vehemently denied behaving in any of the four mentioned ways. Because they were in the educated class they were above reproach. Nothing can penetrate their pride. The article is well written and on point.
I have a relative who prefaces every person he talks about with some reference to their church calling. He is a "Mormon Snob." Perhaps the Lord doesn't care if you served or didn't serve, if you were a high counselor or the nursery leader. Who cares? It's where your heart is that counts.
I agree with Ben Nichols.
I feel like I should respond to this article. I wouldn't normally do so, but it hit a nerve. I can look over intolerances and 'rude' behavior by member's of the church as I would anywhere else. Prejudices we will find everywhere and we deal with them through forgiveness and understanding. The real problem in the Mormon church is that its priestcraft uses shame as one of it's primary tools to correct behavior (As do most other organized religions). It is integrated into policy and decisions when addressing sins. For instance, removing the privilege of taking the sacrament is public shaming. Denying a father from attending a son or daughter's wedding because they drink tea sets an example of intolerance that leads to a culture of shame. I don't purport that Mormon leaders, however, are hypocritically using shame as a means of personal gain. Having a lay ministry is the greatest check against abuses of power within the church on a broad scale (this doesn't mean it's not corrupt in some corners). Instead, I feel culture in the church has been innocently adopted through the broader historical western roman culture. In other words, I believe their over reliance on shame to control shows that the church is still relatively infantile in their understanding of the power of the atonement.
I disagree that prohibiting someone from taking the sacrament is public shaming. Plus, that one Jesus Christ Himself told us to do. In all things I think this should be a guiding quote.
"We cannot, my dear brethren, condition our love. . .There have to be standards and they must be enforced, but our love must be unconditional."
Marion D. Hanks
Good points, but I'm not sure that we have the same understanding of guilt culture vs shame culture. I think the key difference is that a shame culture builds it's moral system around whatever the mob thinks is right or wrong whereas a guilt culture has unchanging definitions of good/bad behavior. There is still room for moral disapproval in a guilt culture as long as it's aimed at bad acts and not at making the person feel they are bad. That's how we teach what is right and wrong. For example, look at the rest of Elder Christofferson's talk, it's all about raising a voice of warning.
Anyways, good article, with important/valid concerns, but I'm not sure guilt culture is the cause of the four symptoms you identified. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
Great points. A suggestion or two... You note that one problem is that some men are put above others, then go on to quote those men (exclusively), when there are statements from Jesus that work. Follow the Savior, not the men (just as a suggestion... with kindness). Perhaps a fifth point would be "Persecuting those who don't believe like you" or "Allowing beliefs to divide us." People worship in many different ways and have may different beliefs. Some prefer to follow the Savior, others prefer to follow the Prophet. Some may watch football on Sunday, some do not. Some may accumulate fancy homes and vacation homes (see Dieter's residences for example) and others prefer to help the suffering. It's called Christian Liberty and it's OK. God works with us where we are.
I agree with you in part. This type of attitude is everywhere. We stop it by aligning our lives with the Savior in and out of the church. Everyone is at a different place in doing that, even those you are calling out. Yes the more of us that stop judging others within and without the church, the more impact we have as a group of true followers of Christ. He didn't point fingers, he just was the Best example ever and it is our greatest blessing to simply follow him.
I am a "blue collar" worker who attended a "very white collar" ward in Meridian, Idaho. Despite making a six-figure income, my children and I were looked down upon. Regularly, my children would tell me about what the other children would say about my employment. Despite having great benefits, retirement, etcetera, I was asked by the bishop one time if I desired to go back to school to better myself. I did attend college previously. All I know, is that I provided for my family, while the others in the ward would always ask for church welfare assistance. A fact that I learned in Bishops council meeting. Move outside of the Mormon belt, it seems as though members are more accepting.
This is one of the best articles that I have read. I feel that this should go in the Ensign for members to read and ponder. I'm not perfect by any means, and this article resonates with me because I need to be better, but I see many of these things. My wife is a student nurse and we are asked all the time if she will work, as if it is not allowed. Anyway, I appreciate your article and will be sharing it in Young Men's with our quorum this coming week. Thank you for your insight!!
Project much? That's quite a gift you have to be able to discern what's in the hearts of those around you in the Church. You're even able to lecture us about what the Lord thinks and feels about things. Maybe you need to consider starting your own church because so many members of the one you belong to so thoroughly and consistently disappoint you. Yes, of course the Church consists entirely of imperfect beings. And yes, some do exalt themselves in their positions in life, but the greater part of those serving in the Church, serve with good intentions and the motives that you and others ascribe to them exist solely in your minds. For those who are uncomfortable with the doctrines of the Church or the way they are living their lives, it's always easier to blame someone else for your shortcomings.
I liked your post but cancer is not an infectious disease. That is a mixed metaphor. Know your stuff...
Great article. I totally agree. I was raised LDS, but am not active at all any more (and my wife is an atheist, so both of us are non-religious) not for any of the reasons listed above, but I did notice a lot of these issues while I was still active.
My favorite Article of Faith (and one that I pretty much never hear referenced) is the 11th: We claim the privilege of worshiping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience. AND ALLOW ALL MEN THE SAME PRIVILEGE, LET THEM WORSHIP HOW, WHERE, OR WHAT THEY MAY. It seems to me that the teaching of this article of faith is largely ignored in Mormon culture. People are so judgmental of what everyone else is doing. Just focus on yourself and let others worry about themselves.
I did meet a Bishop last year, though who I thought was pretty incredible. My Brother-in-law passed away last July in a car accident as he was coming home from work. He and his wife had just recently started going back to church, but almost all of his (and her) family was completely non-religious. Anyway, at the funeral down in Nephi, the Bishop walked up to one of Justin's relatives (I don't remember if he was a cousin or an uncle or nephew that Justin had grown up with) who was going to be speaking during the service. This guy was completely not what you would expect to see in a Mormon church. He had tattoos on his arms and neck, piercings in his face, gauged ear lobes, and smelled of cigarettes. The Bishop walked up to him, introduced himself, and then said, "I wish we had more people in this ward who looked like you". I happened to be standing nearby when that happened and remember thinking that this Bishop definitely had his priorities straight.
"His words reminded me that in the Kingdom of God, there are no caste systems!"
- What are the three kingdoms of glory! The biggest caste system ever, it is just righteous.
Well written, inspiring piece. Thank you. Forgive me taking an opportunity to publicly try to get something off my chest about this. I feel a growing desire to bring, I wanna say,balance to the world of Mormonism; Approximate words would be liberalism, modernism, acceptance. That's good. But I have a little trigger I need to check. I feel an acceptance of blame for- a pointing of fingers towards- our people, on our culture, and never our leaders or doctrine. As Mormons, we are so proficient at blaming ourselves. Not an entirely bad trait. We start to blame our culture. I do not disagree with your points! Just want to vent my feeling that a primary mover in all this has been leadership, doctrine, and feigned certainty. Not t only culture. Just my opinion as is my thought that this is an inspired article.
With all your pretences about being an active god fearing member you forget the greatest rules. Love God with all your heartt might mind and strength. The next as equally as important Love one another. All these faults you are finding and nit picking leaves little time to find the good in others. judge not lest ye be judged. Brother Ratu NZ LDS Maori and Proud Granfather of 6 Moko's
"The Caste System Within Mormon Culture (A caste system is a class system)..." - Is there a denial that there is a "caste system" in the church? I hope not. I have been a member for 41 years (convert at 21) and i have seen it for - 41 years. I saw it on a regular basis during my career in the USAF. I was always told - well you can't have an enlisted man over an officer. REALLY? God gives a hoot about rank in man's military? I thought it had EVERYTHING to do with being called of God, not making sure Military protocol was followed first. NEVER understood this.
"Allowing Politics To Divide Us." - I am a Democrat. I was a Democrat years before I was a convert. And while I get we shouldn't allow politics to divide us, I GUARANTEE you; whether I was in church in Texas, Mississippi, Utah, Greece, Italy, Germany, Alaska or Washington; I heard the remarks. I heard/still hear them walking down the halls, in meeting. in class; I hear it every weekend. So while these comments and snickers don't divide 98% of the people in the church because they are Republican, the 2% of us who aren't have to live with it year round.
Love this: "...the Mormon Church needs singles, converts, liberals and conservatives, transgenders, gays, the barren, the alcoholic, the less active....Christ died for you as much as he died for anyone else..." - Yes indeed; the Savior died for EVERYONE!
I agree with a lot of this, but it feels as if you're shaming people for shaming. Like the older couple who told others to be quiet. Perhaps it was done the wrong way, but maybe they had just been through something horrible and desperately needed the peace and quiet that comes from the temple. We don't know anyone's situation, including that of those who might come off as rude or judgmental. Rather than pick others apart for any type of sin (as we suggest they're doing to us), wouldn't it be better to show some positive examples of loving others?
No, because the stories drive it home. A lot of people deny this happens. These stories are meant to show it is real and needs to end.
To me I think seems your article should be include a more specific title such as "Utah Mormonism" or western Mormonism. Growing up in the church, in the east I've experienced very little if any of the things you describe. But know A LOT of western mormons who have. Mormonism is a worldwide faith....so please don't generalize it like this. The Mormon culture in the west is very different from that in the east or in Canada or Mexico or Europe or Australia,etc.
Originally it was directed to Utah Mormons, but I've seen these problems all over the USA. Although it is more focused in Utah.
The comments below this article have proven how true most of what you have said is. Meaning they are proving most of your conclusions for you. Sad, as a convert(OH NO) I see some of these things and cringe. I am so much happier in the LDS church yet still see the same hypocrisies I have seen in other churches that members deny exist. Being a member of this church does not make you less prone to sin, it does remind you that the need for repentance is much more frequent than other churches teach.
Yasss! This is great, especially the last bit. I joined the church recently, wary of the cultural pieces. I'm highly committed to loving everyone, even the judgmental. Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.
This is a good article. I find it funny though. Holland says the church needs you. The church doesn't need polygamists though. Even though church history is full of them. Whatever! I grew up in a polygamous home. My parents are wonderful people. The church got rid of them. No room in the church for polygamists.
They are still welcome to come to church. And if they repent they can even join it. There have always been requirements, they are known as commandments.
Why are we surprised when humans show human failings - be they in a position of leadership or not? We are making a judgement (shame culture stance) when we say but oh they should know better. A human weaknesses is to be judgmental and we need to accept that all of us could do better in this area and should be less judgmental when others display human weaknesses.
We have to accept that we are all at different levels of spiritual maturity and that again is part of the human condition.
Thank you for highlighting the fact that we all need to avoid such negative judgmental attitudes.
Striving to become more Christ-like is the answer.
The Gosple is True, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the true fully restored church of our Lord and savior...even as He established it when He walked the earth. Apostasy and evil for gain caused the Holy Priesthood to be taken from the world, however God's plan for His children included a final restoration of all that was lost in the Apostasy. Today, now, the ten tribes of Israel are being gathered from the four corners of the earth. God is preparing the way for the second coming of Jesus Christ. Lucifer, once a son of the morning , cast out of heaven for rebellion, knows his days are numbered. He is cunning and evil and desires all mankind to be as miserable as he. All evil, controversary, pride, vanity, hatred, gossip, greed, sloth, and every despicable abomination comes from the Adversary. The church has need of faithful willing hands to build up the Kingdom of God on earth and establish Zion. Members are playing into Satans hand when they allow themselves to become offended, or when they become puffed up in self aggrandizement. The Church is True and Perfect...however,we, the people are all on a personal journey wrestling with life challenges trying to make our way back to our heavenly home and parents. We are never going to achieve perfection in this life. That's why we need the church and the atonement of Jesus Christ, and each other, brother and sister to love and support us as we press forward on th path. We each have different ways of sinning, and we can , by example, help each other overcome and conquer our inclinations to err. We must keep our sights on the goal, refrain from judging others and practice Christlike behaviors until they become second nature to us. We have one great Commandment, to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and soul and to Love One Another. If we do this in all sincerity and humility, we will have our place and know how we fit into the Plan and what we need to be doing to endure to the end. Let us move forward bearing the light of the Lord.
I too came from South. Even there this culture exists. Those who have been members all of their lives tend to look down on those of us are converts. One Sunday we had a General Authority talk to us. He started out by asking how many of us were converts; about half of us raised our hands. He said that was interesting and that he would be directing his comments to the rest of the congregation because they obviously had not been converted yet.
A few years later I was married to a new convert. As the years passed it became apparent that we would not be blessed with children. We received lots of advice from multi-child parents but even though their intentions were good after a while it became more hurtful to hear it. A few years later I was called into the Young Women Presidency in my Ward. I looked forward to this because I loved Girls Camp and I thought I had a lot to offer. The meetings with the Young Women Presidency became gossip sessions instead of productive meetings. The worst day was an In-Service meeting. They were asking for suggestions on how to reach the young people of the Ward. I offered a suggestion which I thought would be received well but instead was told that I didn't know anything about kids. Then the Young Women President proceeded to tell a story about when her mother was Young Women President she called a lady to be her First Counselor who had never ben married and never had kids and that she had the nerve to tell the young women that she knew what they were going through. I later confronted her about it and she denied ever saying that and that she couldn't believe I would accuse her of something like that. Needless to say I went to the Bishop and asked to be released. That was a hard thing to do since he was the husband of the Young Women President.
Members don't understand how much their words can hurt. I have know many members--family & friends --who have left the Church because of how they were treated. And the people causing the harm would get up in Fast & Testimony meeting to pat themselves on the back for helping someone else out. We all become blinded to those closest to us; "You can't see the forest for the trees" is so common in the Church. We are all supposed to keep going, no matter what. So we put on a brave face and smile when we are in pain, laugh when we would rather cry and feel demoralized when we feel weak because we are supposed to "...put your shoulder to the wheel" instead of taking a break because our spirit is on the verge of breaking. No one comes to your rescue and you are left alone to deal with the pain of failure because you are supposed to be strong and therefore be able to handle things on your own. Everyone else has families and problems so don't burden them with yours. Just pray and all will be well.
Please, open your eyes to those around you. Everyone is hurting, everyone is in pain in one form or another. Listen to the Spirit when He tells you to do something or call someone or stop by for no reason. It could make all the difference in the world.
What general authority was that?
After asking them to raise their hand my sermon would be, those who raised their hands are the true pioneers today. Those who did not truly risk being the most far removed from the pioneer spirit and if they use their ancestry as a source of unrighteous pride they have become as the kingmen of old in the Book of Mormon and need speedily repent.
If I have ever been guilty of hurting anyone's feelings within or without the church, at any point in my life, I am sincerely sorry. Outside of any religious institution, it is wrong to seek to hurt or harm others physically or mentally. Looking back, I recognize times when other people may have overstepped certain boundaries when they attempted to give correction or counsel and either accidentally or otherwise injured my feelings. But I believe in people. I believe in the uplifting and ennobling power of the light of Christ. Perhaps my shortcomings were more damaging than I realized, perhaps I misread the intentions of others, or maybe somebody was having a bad day. My point is, I know that we together, not just as a church, but as a human family, are imperfect. I know that the gospel of Jesus Christ can bring happiness in my life and that the Atonement can, with time and effort, heal all wounds. I am grateful for articles like this that raise awareness of the plights of my brothers and sisters and what I can do to be a blessing and not a hinderance to all. God help and inspire all of us to try a bit harder to be a bit better 🙂
Really interesting article – "Shame culture corrupting Mormon cuture" - food for thought and yes, very true. I have been witness to members practising a code of cultural ideology without being aware of it, or may be endemic, some church members just simply ignore or don't want to be persuaded, e.g. the rich v the poor, members v non members, missionaries v non missionaries, dress code - why cant I wear long pants during the cold weather?, knowledge v ignorance, physical appearance - long hair v short hair, married couples v singles, gender/gay members, the list goes on ... I am comfortable within my own church orientation and find the article very interesting. I'm hoping that more members are accessing readings and either confirm or make adjustments to enhance one's beliefs.
And this is why I go to church for my relationship with God and Christ, not the congregation. I'm just happier that way. I could give a you-know-what about what others think or say. I dont play into this stuff and if it's out of control, I switch wards. I always approach it this way- it is not the gospel, it's the people who misinterpret and overindulge in worldly, human views and forget Christ. That's the problem. Doesn't matter what faith you are, this exists everywhere! Work, social groups, etc. too! Christ-centered love should put it all into perspective. When I see behaviors like this in the church, I know these individuals are not fully converted and are spiritually misguided, stunted, and grossly immature. All you can then do is pray for them to overcome their weaknesses. They are usually completely unaware and believe they are following Christ's plan for us. Interesting read!
On point
Article is kind of hit and miss, one person's set of opinions, some I can wholeheartedly endorse others I feel twist things a bit and miss the mark.
Don't know who wrote this article, but I've
been in the church all my life and I haven't seen much of the folly he's so alarmed about. With respected th Harry Reed, the things he said about MIT Romney were shameful.
One thing I feel this article fails to acknowledge is that some of this shame culture stems directly from the doctrine and/or practices of the church. For example, members are sorted by worthy and unworthy. Just the term worthy carries a huge psychological (though often subconscious) impact on people. I can keep the word of wisdom, law of chastity, dress the way Mormons are supposed to dress, essentially keeping the same standards and I'll still never be able to attend my children's weddings if they choose to marry in the temple. I am essentially not worthy because I don't believe in your prophets past and present and I don't believe in the Book of Mormon. That divisiveness and exclusion hurts and it's not culture, it's doctrine. So, maybe own that some of this shame culture is part of your religion and not just from people being human.
Julie I understand how that can be hard. But the honest truth is anyone can qualify to go to the temple. In my families case my grandpa did not. So he missed my mothers wedding. He was mad at her and the church when in reality it was a choice of his. That being said, I understand how it is hard to understand or believe all the doctrine. But I can say that with careful study I have found it to be true. Most of the 'issues' I have found have been contextual issues or misinformation.
Can I truly "qualify" to go to the temple if I believe Joseph Smith was not a prophet and I don't believe the Book of Mormon is inspired by God? To say anyone can go to the temple is like saying anyone can believe in Islam (or insert whatever religion). Or do you no longer have to believe in mormon doctrine to qualify for a temple recommend? By the way I think "qualify" is a much better and less loaded word than "worthy".
Other than a wedding, why would someone want to go to the temple and covenant to obey the commandments and follow the Prophet if they did not believe in the prophet?
And outside of the USA they require couples to be married civilly before they can be sealed in the temple, so I think this is not a doctrinal issue but a procedural issue.
That is exactly the only reason I would want to do such a thing, to attend my daughters' weddings. I won't attend their weddings because I won't lie and make covenants I don't believe in. But I can't witness my own child's wedding because I don't believe a certain way?! Do you not see how that might make someone feel? It is very, for lack of better word, "othering." The grouping and sorting (othering) that was mentioned in the article is because people are not perfect and interpret things differently, but this othering that I speak of is directly from church leadership. Why can't I be a part of this very important day in my own child's life? It's very frustrating that such hurtful and exclusive practices are often dismissed. Belief can't and shouldn't be forced, but it feels like all I hear implied from others is that I should force myself to believe, otherwise I'm to blame for not being welcome.
Which is why I support recent changes to protocol that would have a civil wedding first so non-member family can attend the wedding. And then the sealing happening in the temple later that day. This is how it is done already in dozens of countries that require it by law.
A lot of this article is great.
One part I do have an issue is with the section regarding political issues and gospel principles that go against them.
While I agree having threats against anyone speaking at a church building is wrong, look beyond and realize who that individual is.
Harry Read was the Leader of the Senate and one of the Key Leaders of the Democratic Party for years.
As a member of the church, how could her support Abortion, a key plank of the Democratic Party?
How many innocent lives we lost and could have been saved under his watch if he wanted to, rather than support the Democratic party?
Abortion is Murder! I have not heard of the Church changing their position on this. (Rape, incest, or life of the Mother)
Don't get me wrong Ron. I detest many things Herry has done. But I think the Church should be a safe place to share one's conversion story.
Upon the initial interview with the Bishop in Maine, he talked about that all the people in the ward are not perfect but they are trying. Never leave the Church because your feelings might get hurt. There are those Christians at different levels in growth, and to be patient with them as others will be patient with you, as Christ is patient with us all. But without a doubt, I CAN TESTIFY THAT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS PERFECT. We are all learning as Christ teaches us through the scriptures of the Bible and the Book of Morman. As a convert, I always remembered that none of us are perfect but striving each day to get closer to what Christ wants from us to be
I agree wholeheartedly with this article. Although I think that shame isn't something new to or only recently been infecting The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This has been going on for a long time. I would say that now is when members are starting to see it, talk about it openly, and admit their parts in it. I have been on the receiving AND giving end of all four of those things (more receiving on some and more giving on others). But what I believe it comes down to is that as I learn to accept (love) my own humanity (i.e. that am imperfect, that's okay and how it's supposed to be), I will also be able to accept and love others and their humanity. I think this is what is meant when Jesus says to mind the beam in my own eye before I try to help another with the mote in theirs. When I remove my beam, I will see clearly that I can love and treat others with kindness despite their actions.
A note about being friendly and welcoming: I was always so stressed out just getting to church with all my responsibilities for teaching etc looming and my kids in one piece, I was an emotional wreck. Not in a friendshipping mode.
And, as an elderly sister watching the young women today on spike heels and dressed to show off, I'm glad I'm old.
You lost me at the Harry Reid example. He is one if the most divisive political figures we've seen in modern history. He called our current president a rapist, he admittedly spread lies about Mitt Romney for political points. I wouldn't want him speaking at my Stake Conference either, and I wouldn't dare invite an ultra conservative Bundy to speak at it either. Sharing a membership roster with someone so openly vile is not grounds for keeping quiet should they be invited to speak. I praise the members that kept that from happening.
Jake, I am right there with you. There are a number of folks in my ward who are Democrats. But none of them would spit on Harry Reid if he were on fire. It's one thing to have differing political views but another to openly oppose the the Church's stand on abortion and homosexual marriage and being able to tell bold face lies with thinking of it.
I don't see how he could qualify for a temple recommned.
This is so true...Prejudice and bigotry are alive and well inside the Church...even "Authorities" are as guilty as the lowly member(no I am not talking about General Authorities here) No where is this more apparent than inside Church employment and EVEN in the Mission program...I.e. Native Americans are F O R C E D to cut their hair IF they wish to serve a Mission. However Polynesians are NOT. Church employment is probably the most blatant. A member can have excessive tattoos(any in my opinion are excessive) covering every inch of their exposed skin and they are hired on a regular basis. When asked about this odd policy, the employers make statements like, "there is nothing in the handbook prohibiting tattoos." Yet when a Native American male seeks employment though they be far more qualified than the position calls for, IF the male has long hair, they are most often IMMEDIATELY taken out of the employment prospect pool and usually with not even a "by your leave" as to why the rejections. Often times they are told right up front that long hair WILL prevent the male from getting the job, though he is more qualified and does outstanding in his interview(if he is lucky enough to even get that). Yet when asked the "leaders" say that the Church doesn't allow long hair on males or facial hair??????????????????????????????????? The main criteria for Church employment is the worthiness issue i.e being "worthy" to hold a recommend. The last time I looked which was just before writing this, there is NOT ONE SINGLE question concerning one's appearance. So yeah there are segments of the Church that are extremely prejudicial and notorious for using the "shame card."
The doctrine is true, the bureaucracy is not.
Well duh
I didnt know about this shame culture until I got on the outside of the church. It sure is traumatic. Its true, that when you dont go and participate, you miss out and it might be easier to fall away completely. I miss it alot. However when I do go I get angry at the way Im treated, or my kids, who offer to go to support me get treated. Then I stop going for awhile. The Mormon church makes you confined to the church building within your living boundries. You cant take root elsewhere if you dont live in that area. If that was altered they might not lose so many. Anyways, life is stressful with health issues, kids, their health, work etc, Why would someone want to end that at a church and feel like crap for 3 hours, then hours to come after. Talk needs to be walked. Telling fallen members theyre loved and respected AT ARMS LENGTH is not good enough. Walk the Talk
Thank you for the artical.My husband and son and myself recently visited a chapel in Wales with some friends who are members of that chapel ,they had said to us that it wasnt the friendlyiest of units but we thought it couldnt be that bad.Well im sorry to say if i had been an investigator i would have been put of altogether.Not one person welcomed us,not one person spoke to us or shook our hands i was so so disapointed in those people they were not examples of Christ at all.Im pleased to say that was the first time and hopefully the last time i experience that estranged feeling
Great article! This same stuff was happening way back when I was a kid. Because of it I hated church. I quit going in my teens and never looked back!
Along with God not having a political party, we shouldn't assume the politics of the prophet, first presidency, or the 12; or worst of all, assume their politics are correct. There are too many examples of general authorities being wrong about social issues to assume they will not make mistakes when it comes to government.
These comments are good and I agree. But I have been having huge doubts over the last year. I have been a member of this Church for 50 years. All of a sudden it seems I'm woefully aware of racism and bigotry coming from many members who I held in such high esteem. I can tell you it has messed with my mind horribly. I have felt so betrayed by my own religion over simple Christlike attributes like loving one another.... which should include all races and religions. I have had to try and separate myself from 'the members of the church" and the ' church'. I go to sacrament meeting because I know I should be there. I rely on my testimony of Christ much more than I ever have but I have lost so much respect for people that I once looked up to that it scares me. Has anyone had any experiences like mine?
Sister Heather, You have NOT been betrayed by your religion!!! I implore you to continue to strengthen your testimony through Sacrament meeting attendance AND reading the Book of Mormon. Even in the Savior's church in the old world, there were those who led faithful members astray. In the Book of Mormon we can read where some very righteous members fell away and became Gadianton robbers.
Many years ago we had a bishop chain the cultural hall doors shut to keep kids from "causing damage" to it. He was later called to be stake president. He began asking very inappriate quesitons of married members. He was excommunicated some time later for violating his marriage covenenats.
My wife, then a Cub Scout leader, was told she could be excommunicated for "miappropriating" church funds when she and a den leader purchased some items for the pack with money collected from popcorn sales.
Another bishop would do tithing settlement in shorts and a t shirt. I also heard a Patriarch say of this same bishop his testimony was shaken by something the bishop did.
Be mindful, the Gospel is PERFECT, but the Church has many imperfect leaders and members. These are the last days when even the very elect will be deceived. It sounds as if some of your leaders fall into this category. They will answer for their misdeeds. Please, please don't allow their actions to shake your faith!!
This is a great post, but for future reference, when you're talking about transgender people, you should refer to them as transgender people. Not "transgenders." 🙂
Fixed.
For me you can be lesbian or gay, not being adulterate that destroys the marriage and family of others, that's great!I had my eternal marriage destroyed by a Relief Society sister, "a sister of Zion." Now I have a friend going through the same situation. How long time , will women of our own religion destroy each other's marriage?
This is a fantastic article. Not only was it well written, but it speaks volumes of truth. Only one thing that I saw or rather didn't see in it is how Cultures are definitely treated differently even among leaders. An example here, a Native American is an RM, has never NOT had his recommend with him or near him since he received it several years ago. The main qualification for finding employment and keeping employment in the Church IS either the Valid and Current Temple Recommend or at least be worthy of it. However there are NO questions anywhere in the Recommend interview that address the length of hair on a male. However, when that Native American who does indeed wear his hair according to his cultural/ tribal standards and even though his hair is very neat and pulled in to one or two single braids, He WILL get dismissed from employment considerations soley based on his hair length. No matter he is far more qualified than ALL the other candidates, he will be discriminated against because of his culture. No this is not rumor, or gossip, this is F A C T and this edict comes down from Headquarters where the buck stops with the Brethren.
Then in Church, the leaders continually harass and harangue these Native Americans although all adults are not only worthy to hold Recommends they are card carrying, Temple going, Baptizing for the dead, being Sealed for Time and All Eternity Mormons. They are almost always spoken down to by the "Pioneer Stock" members because they are the nasty Lamanites. The Home Teaching numbers among these Brethren are almost always many percentage points above the "Pioneer Stock" Mormons and they are almost always more active with their Home Teaching Families than those from "Pioneer Stock."
I am a new convert but sometimes i rea
lly feel ashamed of showing my joy and pride in my new found faith.
Why is it that preaching the gospel is a preserve to missionaries,and the church systematically fails to empower the followers with the capabilities to spread the good news.
I am well convinced that the book of Mormon is the most accurate book God has ever sent to man in these contemporary times but no effort is made by the church to make it reach as many men as possible.
I am officially done with being a member in the LDS church, I'm tired of seeing the so called leaders of this church cave in and compromise Biblical standards because it doesn't want to lose members and there tith money. You act like being a Utah Mormon is a bad thing, then you want to lean far left and let people hold Church offices and still Identify an LGBT ️ QXYZ and whatever else. I glad to be back in a Biblically Baced Sothern Baptest Church. You say homosexuality is not a choice, well what happened to free will. It amazing how liberal you have become.
Arthur, if you are looking for a biblical church then your only option is the LDS Church.
As far as same gender attraction goes, being tempted aka attracted is NOT a sin. But homosexuality is a sin. Any sexual relations except with your husband or wife that you are monogamously married to is a sin.
No one is caving.
Art, I totally understand your sentiment and sometimes feel the same way. To many, it seems that the Church is caving and I suppose in some ways, you are correct. There is currently a big push to give warm fuzzies to all the LQBRSTXYZ and those who can't figure out what gender they are. However, the doctrine IS true, the men who run the Church are human and as human are subject to foibles of human nature. I would ask only that you stick with the Church and should the leaders be going down the wrong path here with all this guff and gunk with the "confused" crowd, and if we believe the doctrine, then we know those men will be removed from any positions of authority. Hang in there, things seem darkest before the dawn and we can take solace in knowing that the Gospel of the Church IS the right path for us to take to return back to Heavenly Fathers and all that he has.
The church is going to great lengths to be cautious in the public arena in order to protect the members from persecution and harm.
Are we helping to advance the kingdom of God through love for others and the example of righteousness in Jesus Christ or are we impeding the growth of Gods kingdom by judgement and self righteousness. We may by that example, be helping the adversary instead of Christ. Just something to think about.
Nothing on this list is any different than in any religion or section of society in the world. Discovering these weaknesses in the LDS culture should not be earth shattering as it is well understood that the Gospel is perfect but we as individuals are not. It still comes down to how we, as children of God, deal with our weaknesses while living in the world today. Do we live a life contributing to these cultural problems or do we live a Christlike life and be kind an generous and understanding of others.
I really like your thoughts. Years ago as a missionary in training while walking through the Provo Temple to do a session, I overheard two old men talking about local politics, not in a good way. I thought to myself, "How inappropriate and disrespectful and irreverent." Decades later, now an old man myself, I hear many fellow Saints sharing their political views as if they were the views of the Church, and I think to myself, "How inappropriate and disrespectful and irreverent." They make it hard for me to feel at home in the Lord's church. I ask the Lord, "Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life."
Often I don't feel at home because of my fellow members. Its just so discouraging to be considered crazy or sinful or lost because my reading of the Gospel compels me to value caring for the sick and the poor, the powerless, the refugees, the marginalized in a different way than they have chosen. Are they really better, smarter and more righteous than me? Is that why they marginalize me, rarely ask me to pray or speak in Church, have me teach Primary rather than Gospel Doctrine classes? If I were an enthusiastic Republican, would it all go away?
You teach primary because you were called by the Lord to teach primary. My husband teaches primary, he's conservative. Maybe you don't raise your hand to read scriptures as much as some other people do? I'm sorry you feel marginalized because you choose to serve others through govt compulsion. We are commanded to help others, and conservatives do that, personally. The church teaches personal responsibility and personal service. I'm hope you personally serve as well, but the reason so many members are republican is because it does more closely align with the gospel. You can be liberal, but don't blame that for feeling marginalized at church. If you want to participate more at church, go for it.
Pamela: Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Duane
A few bad experiences cannot be interpreted as culture. I have been in he church for almost 60 years and have never experienced any of these things.
I don't really agree with the article, I truly feel that the most important thing a member can do is develop a personal testimony and relationship with Ths Savior. I go to, serve others try my hardest to obey the commandments for Him and what He did for me. The opinions of other members have absolutely no sway in what I do or how I behave. As a Bishop for the second time I try to convey that to the members of our Ward. Too many leave the Church because of what someone said or did not say, I believe they left the Church because they lacked a personal testimony. We need to help but not baby others in the Gospel. Anyone can develop a strong enough relationship with The Savior but it requires personal effort, prayer, fasting and above all obedience to His commandements so that they are not thrown to and fro by every wave of doctrine and criticisms that come their way.
I agree with your premise that we need to develop a personal testimony of the Savior and serve to show our love for Heavenly Father, I believe the thesis of the articl is spot on. A member of our High Priests group has a son who served an honorable mission the entered the Army. He was called to serve as an Elder's Quorum president in his current ward. But this fine brother was not "in tune" with the Mormon culture of wearing a white shirt each Sunday. His ward leadership, presumably the members of the Bishopric harangue. and harrassed him to the extent he felt unwelcome and became less active. Yes we want to emulate our leaders in our appearance and dress, but it is NOT doctrine, but culture that says we should wear a white shirt.
Thank you for this article. My ancestors were Mormon pioneers but my mother quit the Church. The shame culture you describe sounds exactly like the Mormon culture my mother described and its why she left the Church as soon as she turned 18.
Fortunately I have discovered a much different Mormonism where I live; kind, loving and inviting. I think its all of our jobs to create that environment.
Love President Bonnie Oscarson’s recent General Conference address of a great culture lifestyle in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. WWJD?
I don't know about the caste system thing. If I don't think that someone with pioneer heritage is 'higher' than me, then it doesn't exist. They might think they are higher than me, but that is a problem with personal pride, not a caste system within the church. Same with anything else. I don't think people with more kids with me are better, I don't think people with less kids are worse. In order to be a caste system it needs to be organized, come from a place of authority, somehow enforced. Otherwise I think you just mean pride, which is the universal sin, and would be different from person to person, but I really don't see a class system at all.
I see a lot of people complaining about cliques in the church. Unfriendliness, not feeling included. There are so many facets to this. I remember living in a family ward in Provo. The turnover was ridiculous. VT roles were competely updated monthly because between 25-35% of the ward moved in/out. Once a visitor stood up in testimony meeting and complained about not being greeted or welcomed by anyone, and talked about how unfriendly the ward was. I was appalled. The ward changed so much, it was impossible to greet every unfamiliar face every week. He was complaining about no one greeting him, when possibly a quarter of the people in the congregation were also new and also waiting to be greeted. It made me realize how silly it is to judge a ward by something like that. You can't walk in and assume they are unfriendly because no one greets you in the first hour. You don't need to wait to be greeted. Walk up to people and introduce yourself.
It's the same with any other feelings of being left out. A group of ladies sitting together talking doesn't mean you are being deliberately left out. You can sit down and talk to them, too. If you are too shy, then consider maybe they are also too shy to invite you. I remember moving into my current ward and seeing a gorgeous woman with gorgeous kids and a husband in the bishopric. I assumed she was popular and well liked, connected and involved, and so I didn't go out of my way to get to know her. I found out two years later that she felt like she didn't have any friends in the ward. Everyone feels that way! Everyone feels left out, everyone feels like they don't have enough friends, that they aren't involved. But the world doesn't revolve around any individual. We're all just going to church, trying to feel connected to the people around us.
Basically, don't judge a ward by how welcome you feel. You don't know what is going on there. You don't know what each individual is thinking or going through. If you feel left out, or shunned, or judged, don't. You could be totally misreading the situation. Maybe everyone is thinking you're not talking to them because you think you're better than them. You won't know by making assumptions and leaving. If you don't like that people aren't talking to you, or sitting by you, or inviting you over, it's likely most everyone else feels the same way. So go talk to someone, sit by them, host a game night. I try to invite people over, but it's impossible to invite everyone in the ward. So what if someone is feeling like I'm leaving them out because I've never had them over? There's no way for me to know that if they never tell me!
And I know that it's not easy to get outside your comfort zone. I know because I put a lot of effort into it. And sometimes I'm rejected and get the sense that someone has no interest in being my friend. Sometimes people are ungrateful and downright rude. So I move on to the next person. It's not my loss, it's theirs. I know it's easier said than done. But, honestly, people are not as snobbish and standoffish as everyone seems to assume. It's far more likely that the person sitting there, assuming no one is talking to them because of their tattoo, is sitting surrounded by people who are thinking no one is talking to them because their dress is torn, or they don't have kids, or their husband is inactive, and not a one of them is thinking about the tattoos at all. They are actually all sitting there feeling lonely because they are all just sitting there not talking.
I was excited to read this article. Unfortunately, it was just another page from shame culture itself...
This was a very insightful article. Thank you for sharing your thoughts so eloquently. Here is my concern: how does one reconcile Elder Christofferson's comments with the Church disciplinary system? I have quite a few friends who has passed through it and, sadly, many.of them have turned their backs on the Church because of the shame and self-loathing it generates. They report being ostracized, shunned and relegated to an inferior status as a result. Frankly, I see it as a shame-generating practice that occurs with full blessing--and encouragement--from the top levels of the Church. It is a systemic practice of shunning that seems so at odds with the concept of a loving, forgiving God.
If excommunication is resulting in shaming then they are not following the protocol. An excommunication is an act of love and mercy, not hate and spite.
"When people are disfellowshipped or excommunicated from the Church, it is done not to punish but to help them. Church discipline requires this action, but we should remember that the word discipline has the same root as the word disciple. A disciple is a student or follower—one who is learning. Church discipline, then, must become a teaching process. When a person is disciplined, he should not be thrust out and abandoned by his associates. It is exactly at that time that we need to show increased love for such people, to teach and show them the way back to God. It is wicked to reject a child of God simply because he made an error. We need to teach him how to start anew, to change evil practices into righteous deeds, and thus to transform his life. With repentance through service to others, he can be reinstated into fellowship or washed clean in the waters of baptism and brought back into the family of God.
To teach people to overcome sin and change their lives for the better is the sum and substance of Christian service. We must do everything in our power to help sinners to change their lives for the better. Otherwise, as the scriptures warn us, we will have to shoulder their sins ourselves. Our obligation is to teach and help them, and the sinner’s obligation is to listen and learn. He will have to bear the whole burden himself if he refuses. But regardless of his present attitude, we must never abandon him nor think his reformation is hopeless. There is hope for everyone, and we must never cease trying to help people understand that through the atonement of Jesus Christ not only the sins of mankind in general but also their personal sins can be forgiven."
To Forgive Is Divine by Theodore M. Burton April 1983.
I am a gentile Christian new to Utah. Thank you for this article. I have bookmarked it so that I may share. May God bless you...your loved ones....and your ministry. With gratitude.....Victoria Hayden
And we can still go on with castes. Arried vs single, married with a non mormon husband vs sealed couples, divorced versus still married. How is it that someone can think they are better than anyone when they are judging others based on their lives and situations?
Boy howdy, this article/discussion is dead on target. I am a Native American from the Deep South and every single point outlined at the top of this discussion is dead on. I recently moved to Nauvoo and the caste system me and my family like a ton of bricks on top of the head. We were already well aware of caste but, once we got here, it was literally painfully clear. Then to test our feelings for accuracy, after having been here a few months, we let the "rumor" ( it was and is true ) that we are direct descendants of pioneer stock. Once our lineage was discovered, we suddenly had several new friends who just the week prior had nothing to say to us. The Bishop even overheard some snide comments about "those people who moved here from Georgia." But every single point you made in this article is spot on 100% accurate.
While most of the article is true, articles and publications made public don’t help the image of the church, nor does help those who aren’t doing these said things bring others unto Christ, instead they put a negative view for both members—struggling or not—and nonmembers. This is part of the point of the new third hour meetings, especially that of the first Sunday to address topics such as this. Are we also not a unperfected group of individuals trying, be it wrong at times, to ultimately better ourselves?
Harry Reid was in my ward, he has no respect for gospel doctrine, even in the chapel and during testimony meetings and lessons to push his political agendas, which happens to be one of the points in this article. Not to mention his obsessively large pact of body guards for church settings is ridiculous and a waste of our funds. While some are necessary for his political standing, the amount is overboard and at times took away from meetings. Additionally, his firesides have been used for political gain but somehow it is blurry to you and others. He uses his political stature as means to get others to follow his clear views that cut against church principles and counsels from our leaders. Poor example. I was really enjoying the article until you used Harry Reid (whom my family has direct involvement with his dishonest political moves and notions) as example and an example that contradicts 1 of 4 four points made.
I'd rather bring someone up and potentially fix it than just ignore it. It feels like ignoring the problem because it might make someone feel bad or paint something in a bad light is like whitewashing a sepulcher. And didn't Jesus condemn that?
I guess you didn't actually read what I put. "This is part of the point of the new third hour meetings, especially that of the first Sunday to address topics such as this." That wouldn't be ignoring the the problem, so I wasn't whitewashing a sepulcher at all. Comparing my comments to what Jesus condemned is a little overboard, but I know what I believe and what I meant by my comments. I agree with your points, but not in an open public matter that paints the church not as a Christlike body of people. The Harry Reid example contradicts your 3rd your point, as he is divisive when he makes comments in church settings and as a political figure.
I guess if you think this brings good and would actually fix the problem, then run with it. Very good points and I am actually going to use them for third hour, first Sunday discussions if we are ever struggling for issues to discuss.
Great article! I have noticed a lot of this over the years. I had a friend who drove a very cool street motorcycle as his transportation, and everyone gave him grief. Good mormon boys don’t do that. Why? Does the Bible say you can’t have a bike? When I was graduating HS, people gave me a hard time because I didn’t want to go to BYU or any schools in Utah or Idaho. They said I would go inactive. I was a California girl who hated the cold. I went to UCSD, went to institute, kept the commandments, and stayed active. I like to listen to Christian rap. I like the beat. Im sure some people would think it is a no no. My son was lectured, because he chewed gum when he was about to bear his testimony. Instead of focusing on the gum, focus on his testimony. Too many people -even in California think that the culture, and the gospel are the same. I live close to where the big 3 day, two weekend rock festival called Coachella is located. Last Sunday we had some out of town Coachella goers show up to church. They were wearing shorts and T-shirts. I didn’t criticize, I was just happy they were there!!! Coming to church is always a great choice!!! We need to appreciate the attempt and desire, and love them. Just as Christ did. We are all sinners, we are all sick, church is a hospital, and Christ is the grand physician. Some of us are healthier than others, but we still need treatment. We need to see each other as Children of God! We also need to stop seeing callings as a way to uplift people. My husband is a Bishop, and when he got called, I didn’t want him to do it. We had a lot of struggles in our family, mainly financial. I wanted him to focus on those things. I respect the office, but looking at it from the other side, it doesn’t mean he is better than anyone else, just more busy! You don’t have to be a bishop to spend a lot of time serving others, and get those blessings as well. I personally don’t like leadership. I would rather be a teacher. That is (in my opinion) one of the most important callings. To help people come to Christ and learn of him.
One great thing about Christ is that He just did the will of the Father, and didn’t care about the dictates of tradition or culture. He was friends with women, and treated them with respect, he ate with sinners. Both of which were big no-no’s. He cleansed the temple. We need to look at what we do, and separate culture from the gospel. Keep the commandments, but know the difference between a commandment, and a tradition.
You're right but there is something I have disagreed and that's your "cutting hair short".
When I served a full-time mission,we were required to cut our hair short, neat and clean. That is not men in the church added a commandment to cut our hair short, but it's God revelation to our prophets. The reasons are lds men should be distinguished as priesthood holders with our clean cuts,other reasons or main reasons I don't know. God has a reason for it. Yes, in the old times like Abraham and others, they had long hair, it was God's commandment and we don't know the reason why. Remember, it's a latter revelation not added commandment by men in the church.
Also remember what Elder Bednar has said, "Choose not to be offended" and Elder Uchtdorf statement that we are all imperfect people that needs to be cured in the church and he likened the church to a hospital.
Those who hurt us in the church,that's their accountability and not ours. We should still remain in the church and endure even if there are members who offend us.
Whenever I have friends I bring to the church and are taught by the missionaries, I always say to them, " please dont be offended when you see members or leaders make mistakes, it's because we all fall and this church is like an hospital. We all need of cure". And you know what, it's of a great help to some of them.
You know what, I've been offended by some of church leaders before like my branch president (bishop). I've been humiliated by some of the members but I kept going on and forgave them. Some of them have changed because of my example of forgiveness, though some of them have not.
This I keep in mind that we should be moving on and feel the Spirit in the church and tried not to be distracted. I'm not perfect but I tried to forgive, though hard sometimes but I still love the church and remind myself that they are trying to be like Jesus, too. And lastly, because the church is true.
Wonderfully written. The truth is bitter. This plague exists everywhere!
Thank-you for your articles you have written. I hope LDS people will see the shame culture as true. When I was living in the 'Bible belt', the culture in the LDS community was more like everybody was a family.
"Love One Another"
I have a nephew who has gone inactive because of bullying towards his family from the ward he moved into two years ago. No, he and his wife have not been to the temple, yes they struggle a bit with the word of wisdom and they have a much lower income then the average family in their ward. But they have good hearts are trying to teach their children right. But the ward they moved to has turned on them like wolves, and have driven them from the fold.
I don’t know what Mormon church you go to, but I feel sorry for you. Maybe it’s a Utah thing what you’re experiencing. I haven’t experienced any of that out here in our California stake. I could imagine it would be very hard to get any new converts in that kind of environment.
The politics argument is invalid against the Democratic Party. It's easy to say that they have some aspects of the gospel but looking underneath all that talk, their sole motivation is political gain and they use religion only to serve their agenda in a manner similar to Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini. There are no legitimately positive aspects of the gospel to be found within that party especially when their primary principles are centered around socialism (which the Church has repeatedly denounced for decades), abortion, and the prohibition of religious freedom, the exception being Islam.
I am not a democrat by any stretch, I helped host TEA parties back 10 years ago. That being said, the church should welcome every and anyone regardless of their political ideology.
I suspect that some of these are more prevalent in areas of high density membership. I am in several groups for YW leaders. It never ceases to amaze me how keen some of these ladies are for more rules that they can strictly apply. They'll scour the handbook looking for rules on certain things and feel anxious that they can't find them. Some recent examples: one sister was uncomfortable that, while age 16 was given for dating, no age was given for when it is appropriate for it to move from group dating. Sisters were confidently giving their own rules - 17, 18, high school - rather than recognising the girls' and families' right to receive their own revelation and make those decisions within the home. And you can imagine the whole can of worms that opened when a sister asked about the propriety of henna tattoos! Some saints really seem like they would be happier living the Law of Moses.
Some sisters are also strangely quick to turn people away from events. The most horrific advice was given to one sister who was concerned that a senior laurel had started subbing for her mother in Primary on Sundays but still wanted to come to weeknight mutual. "I wouldn't stand for it," "You're either in or out," "It's all or nothing," was some of the guidance shared. Remember that time when the Saviour turned someone away from mutual because they had been teaching they children on Sunday? Yeah, me neither.
Well it is clear some really Don't know or understand the importance of Scripture and make personal changes and if some don't that is their problem ; getting ones self in order is the best way to reply to spiritual twisters; Our aim is to be as close as possible to be like Jesus -- unfortunately some leaders have set the norm on our apearence and behavior pattern and that flies in the face of the church teaching I simply rebuke such or hold my peace being aware that i sustained such; yet I always consult the Lord for his advice - which usually is leave judgment to me I will deal with them my way as for you keep the commandments and remember the covanenents and all will be well with you
This article is bang on. My one son left the church because allot of the above things.
We became less active because of what was done to us. We tried again recently and have been going more often once we moved. But have noticed it is starting again. But we a calling know in primary. This is what is keeping us going to church.
This culture is not new. I saw it thirty years ago, and is why I made the deliberate decision not to raise my family in the Utah area. It has only gotten worse. I am thrilled to see the global-ness of the Church of Jesus Christ grow. As it continues to grow I anticipate that Utah saints and Mormons will realize that they no longer set the culture standard for the church. I expect that the entire United States will come to that realization shortly thereafter.
How about if we all put God first in our life; above anything else and above anyone else . =)
I agree with most of everything you said. One should not judge others. When it comes to acts it is correct to judge between what is right and wrong without shaming others. This is true in politics, there is a correct principles in politics there are incorrect parties.
Listen to:
A Witness and a Warning Ezra Taft Benson
President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostle
We should not have to be commanded in all things. The war in politics that raged in the heavens was over freedom and personal responsibility the same battle is happening today.
I went back and read Elder Chrisoperson's talk and it was not just on the shame culture. He was speaking to all people as did Christ to become better disciples. Your article was pointed to members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and I do take offense to this article. We are all sinners and have need to repent. We are all brothers and sisters and have need to come into Christ and there is only one way. Forgiveness to those no matter which church of their offenses. Although we have the truth we are still sinners and always need to improve.
This was so good. Painful also because I have been guilty of this. I like the part about how we like to create new sins. in Acts 15, the apostles were considering whether to have new converts to live the details of the Law of Moses. To this the Church President said, "10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."
Awareness of this should lead us to understand that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a preparatory church. The Lord's Prophet, President Russel M. Nelson is doing the Lord's bidding in removing anything in the church that "doesn't have anything to do with salvation."
At some point the nerve of the Pharisaical element that drives this culture in the church will be triggered to cause the seperation of the wheat and tares and fulfilment of the parable of the 10 virgins.
The Lord is working hard to draw the line in the sand and our goal is to seek to be geneuine disciples. Pulling down false tradition at an alarming rate. We have to keep the Spirit in order to stand in holy places and qualify for the church of the first born.
As I read through the article, I got the sense that the author is trying to exolain that we are all equal in the eyes of God. That He looketh on the heart of each imdividual. Reading through the cimments, I realise that I will never measure up to the standards being expected of us.
Personally, I don't care one bit about the caste system. if someone wants to judge me based on what "caste" THEY think I fit into, rather that just simply getting to know me like I would do to form an opinion about someone. Then, they can take a long walk off a short pier with their "judgement" of me for all I care! BUT, as far as their Church callings go, they'd BETTER perform their callings to the best of their ability concerning me when I have to deal with them in their official capacity in whatever callings they might hold! I'm a Veteran, It takes a LOT to hurt my feelings, I can take whatever attitude some holier-than-thou person cares to dump on me, and smile right back at them and ask for more! None of us are perfect, I get that. We just gotta do the best we can with what we got and hope for the best. Some make it, and some don't. We're supposed to help people, simple as that. Spiritually, and Temporally. How we do that, well, there's a guidebook for that, they're called The Scriptures. If you need advice on how to go about helping, That's what your Priesthood and Relief Society Leaders are for. Use them. Don't get much simpler than that.
This was quite interesting and, sad to say, so true. I have been persecuted more from members in the church than from those outside the church. If my faith had not been as strong as it had been, I would have gone inactive. Thank goodness it was as strong as it was. I am still active, and I try my best to not be a person who shames others. I love this gospel with all my heart, and pray I keep it that way!
I think the real corruption entering the LDS culture is the creeping in of modern progressive attitudes that manipulate language and emotion to obfuscate the law and principles of righteousness. I think this blog post is an example. Let me explain.
The use of the words shame and judgement are completely misused. First off, no one can shame another person. That's a misuse of the word. It is an incredibly common misuse today, but it is a misuse. Shame is a feeling we individuals have. It's similar to the word offend. No one can offend me. I can be offended, but it requires my choice. For example, someone can make a statement, and 2 people can hear it but only one becomes offended. It's the same message an intent by the speaker, yet the listeners have different reactions. That's because it is up to them. Shame is the same way. No one can make us feel shame without our participation. Ultimately, shame is the result of us recognizing we're not doing something in line with our beliefs. If we don't believe something is wrong, we're not going to feel shame for it.
My family joined the Church when I was a young teen. My father had always smoked. Our Bishop suggested that he get baptized anyway and work on the smoking. I think that was a mistake, but that's for another discussion. The end result was that my father never quit smoking, but it became a point of contention. He was absolutely sure everyone was judging him, giving him dirty looks and snubbing him. I was there with him at all those meetings. I knew those people, and I saw what was happening. No one reacting negatively at all. The worst thing that happened was that someone would get a whiff of the smoke smell and sniff (not much different than if someone had passed gas). They would look at us, often just to give us recognition we were there. They all loved my father - he was a likable person. Yet my father always felt they were looking down at him and judging him. Was that there error? Could they have done something to be more welcoming? Maybe. But there were always more people shaking his had when we arrived and welcoming us than ever might have sniffed at his smoke odor. The problem was in his mind. He knew the Gospel and knew that was his weak area and let it be a bother to him until he dies.
Such is the case with a lot of hurt feelings and alienation. People will close themselves off and shy away from others because of feelings of unworthiness, fear, etc. While it would be better for members to seek them out to ensure they feel welcome, it's not fair to try to call them out as a sinner for such.
On the author's temple story, I suggest the author actually did a greater disservice than the couple by not preparing his visitor. The temple is sacred, and even though it was an open house, you are asked to be very quiet so as not to interfere with others seeking to feel the spirit. If you had warned him and explained to him ahead of time, it would have kept the situation from being a problem. Even after when your visitor asked about the rude couple, you had the opportunity to explain why the couple shushed you. Instead you kind if ignored your culpability and judged the couple and condemned them for shaming someone which isn't what happened.
When we invite someone to Church, we can prepare them so they don't feel so out of place. It's very easy to talk about dress and why we do so before they come so they can feel less out of place.
Shame is an impoeme is a tool we have to remind us when we're not living where we think we should be.
Thank you!
I’m happy you wrote this article. I’m a convert. Have a boy who struggled with mental illness and addiction, and one who is gay. No missions. No playing church hymns together on Sunday night. It broke our hearts in half to see their struggles. We are both returned missionaries and active participants but I finally threw my arms up and figured I was going to hell and stopped worrying about making it to the celestial kingdom as a family? I just have to trust God knows what he is doing and will remember those of us who couldn’t seem to make the mark. But guess what? My children love us and know how greatly they are loved! They comment on it often. They are both going to contribute greatly to humanity in the work they are studying toward. And as for me, that is my Celestial Kingdom right there. And I will let God take care of the rest. I want my life to be about love and goodness. I can’t walk the culture path anymore.
I find it to be interesting and a bit sad that we just cant see eachother as human. I'm not going to make many friends when I make this statement, and I have to say is bite me, im only human and I am certainly fallible too. you're far from perfect, you're not special, and nobody cares about you trying to be perfect because we as humans never will be. The most christ like thing to do as told by scripture is to love. Love everyone regardless of who they are, what they look like, and what they have done or will do. Your job isnt to judge anyone as long as you are a mortal man, period. The prophets we've had have all been wrong on some level at some point in their lives. They've likely done all of the same egregious things that any other man has done. They are no more worthy of admiration or respect than some random person on the street. God endowed us with sentience and a mind of our own for a reason, I happen to believe that it is to think with, to reason, ponder, and observe for ourselves. We are not sheep or lemmings. Just think. We are not special because we believe that we are the true gospel, any other sect has the same belief. I find the whole section on politics interesting as well. Here in Utah there is no mistaking that the church ( as opposed to the gospel) has a huge influence in our states political happenings. The majority of utah is NOT LDS, yet the laws are designed to cater to the LDS members. For example, how things not kosher to the church's word of wisdom. Bars and restaurants must be distinctively marked as such, our super low ABV for driving, our legal age for tobacco, and now our medical marijuana system; all of these follow mormon cultural lines. Brigham young stated the following: "If ever the day comes when the saints interfere with the rights of others to live as they see fit, then you can know with assurance that the church is no longer led by a prophet, but by a mere man." Let that sink in. If Joseph Smith and Brigham young were alive today and in their original character and frame of mind would they be at all welcome in the church of today? After all they drank, young chewed tobacco and ran a distillery and bars, both practiced polygamy, etc. Question deeply what you've been taught and why.
Born and raised in the church and felt so alone being one of the few Hispanic members yet continued for ignorance does not scare me. Fast forward to the 21st century and being a divorced mom of two, the church and the members I’ve been close with keep my faith strong.
Excellent. Brought tears to my eyes. Thank you!
I'm not sure how I feel about this article. I'll just get this out of the way first. The author referred to members as "Mormons". Members are not Mormons. If that were the case the church would be called, The Church Of Mormon, of Latter Day Saints.
I guess I have been blessed to live in an area with the most loving and accepting members of the church because I don't witness such behavior mentioned in this article. I'm sure it occurs which I say to the offenders, shame on you. Stop it. I have experienced enough life lessons to know God is no respecter of persons. Never ever judge someone else. We are all beggars before the Lord so be kind, loving and Christ like.
This article was written in April of 2017, in the height of the "I am a Mormon" campaign.
While I am in agreement with most of the points raised I would like to mention that the caste society is supported, if not created by God, remember, the Jews (tribes of Israel) are Gods “chosen people “. Coloured men were denied the priesthood due to the mark of Cain, until God changed his mind in the 80’s. I could go on. I encourage anyone reading this article to look deeper than just the ideas that separate us, try to find the source. It is taught that God is the creator of ALL things??!!!
I live in Vegas. The Harry Reid story I heard is different. I heard his campaign manager reached out to all Stk Presidents in the area and pitched his fireside idea. As more and more info came out about it many viewed it as a political move disguised as a church event.
Every person is a child of God and should be cared for as such. If they are a member then we must assume they are keeping the commandments and covenants. The Lord did not give us to be judges but only to love all, the long, the short and the tall.
There is room for transgender people? I suppose in the same sense there is room for adulterers. But we excommunicate them don't we? The point of your article is taken. But I disagree that this is an increasing problem in the church. I think the trend is in the opposite direction. I worry more about complacency and eroding standards. It's a fine line to walk, welcoming all without compromising standards of behavior. But people who fall on either side of the line should equally get mercy and patience.
This is untrue for me. I made my choice to be part of this church. Maeried in the Temple. My son had long hair. As long as he qire a white shirt, he passed or blessed the sacrament. I always told my kids we raised them, and not for the neighbors. It depends on who you ask.
Totally agree. If I need be perfect before I can go to church I would never go. Welcome and accept all for who they are right now and let God take care of the rest.
This says it all. We must always remember that this is NOT our church but His church. Jesus Christ sets the rules. Who wants to argue with Him?
Thank you so much for always reminding us about this topic. Born and raised in the Gospel living in the Bay Area and seeing my close friends and cousins belonging to a different religion which we invited to church on Sunday. There were comments to them from members that knows them and there Family like;
Are you guys lost
Your family know your here
You want to be Mormon now,
These are just a few but those remarks coming from members needs to Stop. I’m so glad that they had the Heart to move on and see beyond that. Years after they joined the church and now raising a very nice family.
Just a question on Drinking Kava. I’m Tongan and I see this as a Very Big Issue with the Polynesian People espically the Men’s (Priesthood Holders). Every weekend they leave there families for a great amount of time during the late hours to meet at a home or hall or any building which they plan to gather and drink and talk and play music and sing just having fun. Nowadays, I see it coming to the teenagers drinking it at schools or before going to a school or church dances. Is there anyway that we as members or Church Leaders help in this issue? The excuse I here back the most from those who drink kava is;
This is a Culture thing
This is medicine that helps me
This I where I come for Peace,
there’s more but this only a few. I see so many divorces and many family being wrecked and there kids in trouble at school or else where. Now living here in Utah since 2005, this Kava is spreading like a Disease to Older and Younger all the way down to our Youth and now we have woman’s joining also.
Please if you do write a topic on this please let me know, thanks!
Did you forget to include the older people in your list of those to be accepted? They were the people in your story who shushed the temple visitor. Not all would be that rude, but it was assumed their age explained their intolerance. (Our prophet is 94!) It could be assumed an older person has experience and wisdom to share and learn from, but often they are overlooked as too old to understand.
Yes, President Monson was especially mindful of our senior members of the church. I love them dearly, often they a vast reservoirs of gospel knowledge and church history! I meant no disrespect by describing the member who shushed my boss at the temple.
NAILED it! Bravo!
Come to California. You'll typically find that church you desire. Non judgemental and very loving.
Instead of reading articles like this that are discouraging, judgmental, and negative, please READ the SCRIPTURES! A personal perspective of what ONE person thinks is "wrong" with the members of this church is not necessarily true for the whole of us. As for the person you took to see the Temple- I'm sorry it ended badly for you. But.... it was YOU who was upset when it occurred. It didn't go YOUR way. YOU were offended and gave up! YOU were the judging one to that couple who maybe was looking for a spiritual experience. Perhaps they were investigators themselves trying to absorb the Temple. How much did it take for them to ask you to be quieter? You'll never know so why try. Unfortunately you were unable to accept the possibility that YOU were being irreverent. As our Prophets have said many times, ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING. FIND THE GOOD! and as you say LOVE ONE ANOTHER! Hey, here's a perspective for you: A loving person could accept the request to be a little quieter without guile. A loving person could understand that they may not know where that couple was coming from. A loving person could try to find the positive in the situation for your investigator. Instead, you left a hole in the experience. " If you don't something nice to say, don't say anything at all".
Bee Grateful
Bee Smart
Bee Clean
Bee True
Be HUMBLE
Be PRAYERFUL
A perfect example of the shame culture in action.
True
I agree!! I know some people who moved there and were snubbed because their ancestors was a pioneer. It should not matter. Later they found. out they had ancestors that crossed the planes. But they didn’t bragg or snub anyone. We are all brother and sisters and should just love everyone no matter what they are. I am so grateful for this knowledge and I just let it go and love everyone whether or not they even like me. I want to be like JESUS! Love one another....
Excellent article, and reflects my experience. I was a convert who entered a bad marriage in the temple. After 15 years I was called to serve as Bishop. I served well. Two years after my release I divorced my wife (evil doesn't begin to describe her), and was summarily shunned from the ward and stake. I moved, but always felt like a 2nd class citizen. Please don't tell me it was just in my head, it wasn't. The degree of patronization was astounding. After a couple more years of spiritual abuse, I left. Later I learned how poorly my children were treated because they wanted to be involved, but couldn't be baptized (long story). More spiritual abuse. I personally experienced most of what was written in this article. Unless you neatly fit into one of the boxes of their caste system, you don't belong. Funny thing is, I still believe the gospel is true. I am imperfect, too, but I just cannot compromise my sense of self worth to engage with these people.
I just want to submit that the only way you can feel shamed by someone is if you let them. People can say all kinds of hurtful, shaming things but you can choose to not let it shame you.
We should endeavor to always be polite, kind and loving but also understanding and forgiving.
Jamir, you are a bit idealistic. While conceptually this is true, it's difficult to overlook years of repeated abuse, intended or not. I chose not to let people shame me; I left.
Item 4: We had a structured approach in our ward where wvery week each member of the PEC was assigned as a greeter. We made sure that we spent a few minutes with every visitor to help them feel warmly welcomed. I will never forget one woman, a traveling business woman, who remarked on how nice it was that she felt so genuinely welcomed, much more so than other wards she visited. Two points: 1. Why were we the only ward? 2. Why did this have to be assigned?
Excellent article. Grateful for your research and sharing this timely concept.
i've seen dozens of converts come and go. The were not able to assimilate into the culture. This article describes why that assimilation is so difficult. Well done.
No unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of God.
Does that statement not exclude sinners?
There are those who are a unrepentant sinners, those who love sinning and don't wish to give it up.
The bible teaches not to keep company with fornicators.
Love them yes, but don't party with them.
I respect others right to disagree, but please respect me too.
No, except sons of perdition scriptures teach that all men will eventually be redeemed from their sins. Some will go into Celestial glory, some Terrestrial, and other Telestial. But all the kingdoms of glory are heaven, everyone in every kingdom will be clean.
Wouldn’t it be better to focus on and express gratitude for all the goodness that abounds? For example, when you took your friend to the temple open house, you complain about ONE couple who was grumpy. What about the HUNDREDS of others who were spirit filled souls joyfully touring the newest House of the Lord. What about the Spirit of warmth and gratitude that radiates from them?What about the hundreds of volunteers there to guide and assist at every turn? What about the hundreds of workers who spent years honing their skills so that one day they could give their very best in constructing a temple for God? You see that for which you look. Try looking for the good and report to us on that. You have such a talent in writing. How about focusing on the good.
I try to look for the good, but I also want to make sure that I bring to light the bad so that the light can destroy it.
What is the best way to go about "destroying" it? Shouldn't we have compassion for those who struggle with being judgmental as much as we have compassion for those who struggle with addiction? I was bothered, as I read, with the idea that it's ok to condemn people we feel are narrow-minded even while advocating for accepting those who feel they're on the fringes.
And how do we - with love - offer correction or insight that might help those people? The experience in the temple, for example. Perhaps if the author had engaged the older couple in conversation instead of turning away in offended silence? Introduce yourself and your friend and explain his question, that it was his first time in any temple? Open their eyes in a kind way that might have smoothed things over for everyone?
Because we're all in this together, all weak, all with our own experience and struggle that we can share - share our strengths, draw strength from others around us while minimizing our focus on THEIR weaknesses.
Thank You. Ive been a convert since my early adult years. Ups and downs as with life. Rare Temple recommend as single in mid twenties. Happy times as late 20s in 40+ singles groups, and YSI Wards Married in Temple and abused by convert husband, i was told not to say anything.about that as Church look ..divorced.
Later, i bought modest home in Nice area. Then met persecution of others and myself. Bishop saiid"Anonymous person told him not to give Temple Recommend because he didn't like my moral, legal regular work. I must quit
Ii did. They. Did not help me get other job as promised they would. Soon Injury with NO Blessings and years of INDIFFERENCE. and no work. Many others treated badly have moved away from this Ward but i have been unable to. Injury precludes efforts to attend temple or move. Only Two of that ongoing controling group have privately asked my forgiveness (i happily did).
I have a Testimony. However, No VT no HT and Bishops these many years do not call me and will not even talk to me in passing or return my calls. Many years I am nothing. Outside, in public others approach me telling me what a nice and good spitit they see in me.
Yesterday a non member friend asked to visit me and blessed each room of my house that they might get much needed repairs i can't afford. Sorry
Great article but unfortunately the title itself invokes a connotation of shame. Maybe a title focusing on the ways to overcome and how members can build unity through creating a Christlike culture would compel to action.
Exactly
I left the Church for much of these shame tactics, then I realized if I didn't come back who would be there to witness truth and call to repentence those who lost their way because of persecution within the church and do so in a loving way. Thank you for this article.
STORY ABOUT SISTER
I love the story that Elder Gay gave in his talk in last general conference about his older sister who died who was not active in the church. I'm grateful for his transparency.
EVEN ELDER GAY looked down on his sister at times for her poor choices in life. Yes, even he had the same weakness most of us do. Looking down on those who we perceive as not being as righteous as us. And he was rebuked for it. Unfortunately, it had to happen at his sisters passing.
________________
STORY FROM ELDER GAY'S TALK
"A few years ago my older sister passed away. She had a challenging life. She struggled with the gospel and was never really active. Her husband abandoned their marriage and left her with four young children to raise.
On the evening of her passing, in a room with her children present, I gave her a blessing to peacefully return home. At that moment I realized I had too often defined my sister’s life in terms of her trials and inactivity.
As I placed my hands on her head that evening, I received a severe rebuke from the Spirit. I was made acutely aware of her goodness and allowed to see her as God saw her—not as someone who struggled with the gospel and life but as someone who had to deal with difficult issues I did not have.
I saw her as a magnificent mother who, despite great obstacles, had raised four beautiful, amazing children. I saw her as the friend to our mother who took time to watch over and be a companion to her after our father passed away.
During that final evening with my sister, I believe God was asking me, “Can’t you see that everyone around you is a sacred being?”
The author seems to imply these problems are new and growing. We have had ALL these problems in the past, we continue to have these problems and will probably (sadly) have them in the future. The opposition will always try to divide us however they can. These problems are not new or particularly growing, but they are real. Their presence among us is proof that we, as a people, are not yet perfect. We need to struggle to each be better, working on our shortcomings and letting the Lord help us to make them strengths. Engage in that struggle and we will overcome our shortcomings individually and collectively.
Mormon culture IS shame culture. Over my life I have talked to good people who have left the church and have realized that it never was the gospel they rejected but the culture that members adopted from early saint practices/attitudes/beliefs. Although I am active member, I struggle with “fitting in” because I refuse to identify with the culture. The silver lining is, though, as the church grows, so does its diversity, therefore squashing out the Mormon culture mind-set.
I am a firm believer that the Gospel Culture is true, and that Mormon Culture is the reason people leave the church.
I regretfully confess to having been both a haughty offender and an overly sensitive recipient of improper attitudes and actions. Many times I have reacted with anger and resentment, and I have had brief periods of inactivity. I keep coming back, each time a little less prideful and a little more compassionate. Why? Because this IS the ONLY church authorized and led by Jesus Christ! My testimony is heart-felt and as much a part of me as any part of my body, and I only hope and pray that I can continue to endure beyond my 70+ years, very imperfect, yet constantly striving to learn, repent, and overcome. I sympathize with those who stay away because of offenses, but if and when they receive a witness of the truth, they will swallow their pride and offense and return, humbly admitting that they are also imperfect patients in Christ's "hospital for sinners."
The church is full of imperfect, broken people who are doing the best that they can. The gospel is perfect and I believe we are all trying to live it’s principles more fully. I don’t doubt that we can all improve in our charity and kindness, but I believe the gospel helps us do this. We are all unfinished products. Most poor behavior comes from insecurity.
I love the gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s teachings give me hope that the Atonement can make me better and that our Father in Heaven is patient with my imperfections.
Great article and very true. Thank you for spending the time to isolate those thoughts into a well written article.
While there may be some examples of this happening, it is rare. Most members of the church are welcoming and inclusive. Its a good reminder though to check ourselves and remember we are all Gods children just doing the best we can
I have been a member of the Church all my life and lived in many different wards and stakes across the United States and Japan. I can honestly say that I have never felt or observed any of the issues described in this blog. Not once. Perhaps it was there, but I simply never noticed it because it's not important. If people behave poorly or act less than you would expect from a member of the Church, so what? We can choose how we react, and I choose to live and let live. I'm sorry that it has caused so many people so much angst. "Then Jesus beholding him, loved him." Mark 10:21.
I agree with most of what you wrote except the part about politics. I know that Christ isn’t in a political party! I do agree with that. As an LDS sister I have to stand up for my beliefs which does not include abortion. I cannot be nice to that, sorry if you don’t agree. I’m not mean to these people but I cannot look upon them as friends.
One can still be Christlike yet a fearless advocate of life.
GREAT ARTICLE!
I especially liked Visitors Welcome perspective.
Adding #5. And what stands out to me as a non-member of either the faith or the culture from this article? (Though I've learned a lot about it and like a lot of it.) It's not shameful to belong to a different faith or to not be LDS.
"Take, for example, my boss. Who I had been trying to share the gospel with for years."
STOP it! This is a distinct problem those within are blind to, especially in the work place! Many workplaces in Utah are hostile to work in and fire non-LDS regularly for no other reason. They have religion context interview questions like, "We don't have coffee here. Are you o.k. with that?" We are not here to be counted on a ledger of conquests. I happen to be perfectly happy with my own faith. You all are going to baptize me again into your faith when I'm dead anyway 😉 And you know what? I don't believe LDS is true, but if it makes a few family members feel better and if I'm wrong, baptize away.
I am sorry you've dealt with that Ann, there are laws that should protect you from that kinda behavior, I recommend that if that happens again you look into your legal options.
Ann - the firing of people because of their religious beliefs is also done the other way as a friend of mine testified that several church members suddenly lost their jobs when a new manager came in to a large retailer - this was a few years back now. There needs to be more tolerance to others of different faiths.
The moral of this story is fix yourself before criticizing others in any way shape or form you're not perfect and neither is anyone else. Or is Jesus said it yet let the ones without sin cast the first stone. We are all too quick to criticize others when we haven't looked at ourselves very long in the mirror.
It was said long ago, “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” And “Love thy neighbor...”
Anything else is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
I saw a talk on facebook about Love. She(Roma Downey) tells us to Love as we have never been hurt. To Love as we have never loved before unrestrained. It really spoke to me because this is something that should be an integral part of the Gospel. When you do good to one another your doing good to the Lord. Let's love the Lord like never before with all of our beings. Hasn't the Lord suffered enough already? I for one want to do the best I can to be a friend of the Lord. I don't want to cause him more undo suffering and pain.
Some points are right some points i cant agree. When it mentions LGBTQ gays or lesbians...? Why we keep classifying people the way they are. If we only knew there are only 2 classification that God made- MALE & FEMALE. We cant tag or say classify and name them gays or lesbians just because on how they act. Maybe thats parts of being imperfection on physical..but we still look at them as Male and Female in all manners of respect.
In some part of my life i became an investigator a visitor in the church. Yes it is true some members does not seems so friendly but i never live it as the foundation of my invistagation in the church. This people are also coming to church because they are sick just like me. I cant judge them they are not good mormon. Because they need also to come to church to heal just like me. That i continue in the church until now even meeting those kind of people seeing so many imperfection. I never hate them..instead i should understand them. And tell myself i have also lot of imperctions just as they are. If we keep coming to church just to look all those imperfections from others then we might not undestand fully why we need the savior Jesus Christ. Coming to church for me is only focusing to ur self and to our savior on how we can immulate Him because He once was said Come Follow Me.
Right on, Diane. There is a reason President Nelson specifically guided the Church's PR department to remove the MormonAndGay.lds.org subsite. That's also why the Church had CES remove the homosexuality section in the Honor Code. Just as we don't have a site specifically devoted to MormonAndAlcohol or MormonAndThisSin or MormonAndThatWeakness, we don't let our challenges identify us as President Oaks reiterated some time ago. We identify by our eternal identity as children of God and by our goal as disciples of Jesus Christ, that eternal glory we aspire after. There are appropriate ways to discuss our challenges and sins, but there is a reason Preach My Gospel says "Do not discuss your past transgressions or ask those you teach to discuss their past transgressions." Any past smoker or alcoholic will readily tell you that outside of fasting and prayer, when they decided to not let their challenge define them and in turn they fully focused on and filled their life with the good ("every good thing comes of Christ") is what enabled them to prevail and triumph. You might note that when Alma taught his sons, he discussed the overcoming of his sins, not his past sins specifically, when teaching repentance, of turning to Christ, and such should be our model as well. When we allow sin and weakness self-identification to be our process, we unknowingly turn inwardly to our past, to the very things that are limiting us, and we ignore Christ who is our Champion and Friend and the only One who can transform our natures.
I don't know how pervasive these flaws in our Mormon culture are today, but they are definitely ones I have witnessed frequently in our church and are ones that each of us should examine in our own lives and try to avoid. The one that I think was particularly timely was the one about excluding people with different political views than our own. However, I must say this is not just found within our own church members, but in our U.S. society in general. I don't recall ever seeing our country as divided politically as it is inow. Passions are high on both sides of the aisle in Congress and in the church pews around America, as well as across the dinner tables in our homes; and we seem much less tolerant of our differences of opinion than we used to be, which in and of itself is considered "un-American."
This article is a keeper if for no other reason than to have the quote "Just stop it!" by Dieter F. Uchtdorf, which could be the the admonishment for each of the items listed in the article, and the exquisite painting by Dewey Simon of Christ holding an infant who represents each and every Child of God. Thank you for this thought-provoking article.
Tares among the wheat
I totally agree with this. It is not new and not exclusive to our faith, but it is judgement and has no place in our lives and is certainly not behaviour becoming of those who wish to be Saints.
I have been guilty of this and have felt the ostracism caused by receiving this judgement (poor, big family, convert, no RMs... )
Having felt this, I became sensitive to it in myself. My conclusion was, whenever I felt myself judging, I would repeat my 'new mantra'; "Child of God... Child of God" and suddenly I would remember to see others I was now guilty of judging in a whole new light.
Perhaps this 'mantra' may be helpful to others.
On perfection, for everyone who wants to read, but written To Alan Lee on Matthew 5:48
These are a few of the many notes on this one verse that I have in my scriptures.
Matthew 5:48 the footnote for perfect is complete, finished, developed.
‘Therefore is a word to say something like move towards this thing of perfect, complete, it negates the command be perfect into a moving, vibrant quest to move towards perfection.
KIn the original Greek translation of the Bible “perfect” in this verse was written as “teleiono,” which means “to reach a distant end, to be fully developed, or to finish.” So it is clear that perfection as asked by the Lord is not a one-stop destination of attainment, but rather a labored journey of eternity.’
Try this article, also.
https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/what-does-it-mean-to-be-perfect
Beautifully said, only the Lord can judge and those who presume to do so for whatever reason need to look at themselves and repent.
Well said ❤ If we are true followers of Christ then we love everyone just as He does ❤
The only kind of shame that is healthy is the kind of shame you feel in the quiet places of your own heart. I know this kind personally. It's the shame you know and feel when you have a personal knowledge and conviction of doing something that you know is wrong and you FEEL it. It's when you know as a Christian that you could have done better and loved better and be loving and doing better and you hold yourself back. It's when you know you wasted days of your life on misplaced priorities and you do not get that time back. Shame is only healthy and as when we are ready and willing to be honest with ourselves and others and our heavenly creator that we were wrong and have fallen short of our higher potential as his children....namely is truly loving ourselves and others as his children and as being worthy deciples of Jesus Christ.
“Having lived in the south?”
I love reading your articles but am a bit taken back by this one. As someone who has been to all 50 states and traveled for a living for more than 30 years, lead major construction projects from Boston to Seattle to LA to Miami and many places all over, the people from the south are more friendly than any place I have worked
There’s a lot to be said about southern hospitality and that disparaging remark is unfounded and stereotypical nonsense.
I have lived in Memphis, Nashville, Charleston, Macon, and Greenville (SC). I LOVE the south, but my family hails from the south. My 5th great-grandfather was BORN in Charleston SC in 1750. And until my grandpa moved away his branch of my family has all lived in The South. So, with all due respect, I think I have the right to say, "Having lived in The South."
This is the last dispensation. This is the Lords Church. It's easy to be critical of others. Satan loves to see those that find fault. Heavenly Father will not let this Church fall. He expects us to stand for what is right. Turning a blind eye to the political world only lets in the wolves. I love my country. While I am on this earth, I will stand for the right. Joseph Smith stood for the right. That's why he ran for president of the USA. Don't think he didn't have critical views on the situation of the government. He was killed for his stand on what was right then. That stand has not changed.
Lets get the name right! We do not belong to the Mormon church. Its the Lords Church. Didn't you watch conference??? Its the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. IT IS NOT CORRUPT.
I loved in Sandy Utah. I have been a member all my life, but have never been treated the way zi was in that ward. I would say hello to someone and they would look at me and walk away. This went on for 4 weeks.Not one person talked to me. As result I went inactive. My children were treated the same way. The bishop lived next door to us and never acknowledged us. I have since moved to Washington and love my ward.
We need to do better. Talking about it helps.
I can see many valid points in al of your "lesson" here. At 74, and a convert from many years of serious Christian faith, I have experienced quite a number of your experiences and notes.
While I agree generally with your opinion on the dangers of letting politics be more persuasive than the gospel, I have to disagree on the reason that politics becomes a harbinger of discontent or discontinuity.
Your example of Harry Reid is a perfect one. I knew Harry Reid for over 30 years. He was the consummate politician. Unfortunately, it was more about his power and successes and influence than what was really good for his constituents or the Church. Harry Reid was a liar, a cheat, and a revenge-seeker against those who disagreed with him. We used to call him without any remorse, a "snake".
I was heavily involved in the issues and "politics" of Nevada from the time I was assigned to Nellis AFB in 1976. I learned of Harry right away. Some good....some not so good. At the time I was not Mormon. But after I joined and became Temple-worthy and made that amazing experience personal, I took the Church quite seriously, also.
Harry was not the only politician to use the church as a tool for getting elected and re-elected. I personally watched some of our most trusted members and leaders become involved in all kinds of sordid and sinful behavior. A few times I was compelled to report them, but as a recent convert, my word was almost moot. Their misbehavior continued unabated.
Bur Harry was worse that just a simple sinner. His actions totally undermined the Church and all the good behavior and efforts of the entire church-in-community relationship. He should have been excommunicated LONG before he died. IMHO he deserved no place in any of the Kingdoms that I have been told of.
So, it wasn't about "politics". It was about irreverent behavior, causing harm to others, and causing embarrassment to the LDS Church. Politics is just an avenue for action, but when the climbers and lifetime professionals turn their "faith" into an engine for personal gain, it defiles the whole notion of what Mormons are supposed to be. No matter how short his hair was.
Sincerely and in love,
Kenneth Koester
I have been a member of the church for 47 years and have been in several different Wards. We don't have a shame-based religion. There is no place in our meetings for shaming one another for any reason. We all need to keep trying to walk in faith and place a higher priority on how we are keeping our own covenants instead of making judgments on how others are doing. I always thought that whenever someone is critical of how another person keeps their covenants, they are begrudging of their own responsibilities to the Lord. They need to stop projecting shame. We all have things we struggle with.
This article and the comments show just how divided we as a church are today. We are close to being like the church in Book of Mormon times like when the Amlicites and Kingmen broke away because they no longer accepted the Prophet of the day, let alone Christ, to lead them. The division is much more than over cultural differences, rather it is based on not accepting the doctrine on the family as taught by God’s prophets. I wish it was as simple as loving one another, but until we agree on the doctrine the cultural divisions will only become wider.
I had a hard experience with that. I was excommunicated from the church. My family ie children were not. They were 8, 10, 13 years old
My wife and I divorced but my kids lived with both parents as they should no visited my children or even looked in on them or me. Finally after 20 yrs it no longer mattered what anyone thought of me I rejoined and received all my blessings. The same people hated that felt that way when I was exed the difference was me.
But your right the shame culture over runs the church on many levels. The question is” what would Jesus Do?”
That then what we should do