Quitting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Quitting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
In a local newspaper in Provo (Utah), there had been an ongoing series of articles written by individuals who wanted to persuade, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to leave the Church. In response to the highly critical and spirited remarks, a local member wrote this rebuttal:
But before we continue I'd like to invite you to like my facebook page.
"Editor:
I have been thinking of quitting the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yes, if I can, I am going to get even with that church. As soon as I can find another church that teaches about the Gathering of the House of Israel; the return of the Ten Tribes and their mission; the return of the Jews to Palestine and why, and how they are going to build the temple; the building of temples and what to do with them; the mission of Elias, the prophet, as predicted by Malachi; the method for the salvation of the people that died at the time of Noah in the flood; the origin of the American Indian; the complete explanation of why Jesus of Nazareth had to have a mortal mother but not a mortal father; the explanation of the three degrees of glory (three heavens) as mentioned by Paul; the complete explanation of why Elias and Moses did not die but had to be translated (since they both lived before the resurrection was introduced by Christ); the restoration of the gospel by modern revelation as promised by Peter and Paul and Jesus himself; the belief in eternal marriage and the family, and the knowledge and the place to seal for eternity; that teaches abstinence from all harmful drugs and foods ; and that sells the best fire insurance policy on earth, for the last days, for only a 10th of my income.
Yes sir, as soon as I can find another church that teaches all that, or even half as much, I will say good-bye to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The church that I am looking for must also be able to motivate 50,000+ youth, and adults, for the first, second or third time, to leave their homes for two years at their own expense and go to far-away places to teach and preach without salary. It must be able to call, on a frosty day, some 5 or 6 thousand professors, students, lawyers, doctors, judges, policemen, businessmen, housewives and children to go and pick apples at 6 am. It must be able to call meetings and get the attention for two hours of more than 150,000 men. Yes, it must also teach and show why salvation is assured for children who die before eight years of age.
Mr. Editor, could you help me find a church that teaches all that and more than hundreds of other doctrines and principles, which I have no room to mention here, and which brings solace and comfort to the soul; peace, hope, and salvation to mankind, and above all, that answers the key questions that all the great philosophers have asked; questions and answers that explain the meaning of life, the purpose of death, suffering and pain; the absolute need for a Redeemer and the marvelous plan conceived by our Father and executed by Jesus Christ the Savior? Yes, as soon as I find another church that teaches that, and also that has the organization and the powers to make that teaching effective, I am going to quit The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. For I should not tolerate that “they” should change a few words in the Book of Mormon-even if those changes simply improve the grammar and the syntax of the verses-for, after all, don’t you think the Divine Church should employ angels as bookmakers, and clerks, to do all the chores on earth? Don’t you think, Mr. Editor that the Divine Church should also have prophets that don’t get sick and don’t get old and die, and certainly, that don’t make a goof here and there. No, sir! A Divine Church should be so divine that only perfect people should belong to it, and only perfect people should run it. As a matter of fact, the Church should be so perfect that it should not even be here on earth!
So, I repeat, if any one of the kind readers of this imperfect letter knows
about another church that teaches and does as much for mankind as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, please let me know. And please do it soon, because my turn to go to the cannery is coming up. Also, “they” want my last son (the fifth one) to go away for two years and again, I have to pay for all that. And I also know that they expect me to go to the farm to prune trees, and I have heard that our ward is going to be divided again, and it is our side that must build the new chapel. And also, someone the other day had the gall of suggesting that my wife and I get ready to go on a second mission, and when you come back, they said, you can volunteer as a temple worker. Boy, these Latter-day Saints don’t leave you alone for a minute. And what do I get for all that, I asked? “Well,” they said, “for one, you can look forward to a funeral service at no charge!”… Do you think you can help me to find another church?
Thomas D. Clark"
If you liked this, you might one like these popular articles.
Four ways the shame culture is corrupting Mormon culture.
One Thing Every Mormon Should Understand Before They Go Less Active
That is a GREAT article, made me laugh and made me think just a little.
- Phil Johnson
SPRINGVILLE, UTAH
There is only one Church that offers all of that...
It's a miracle that Joseph Smith saw and conversed with both Elijah and Elias. What's even more amazing is that these Biblical figures are the same person, Elijah being the Hebrew version of the name and Elias being Greek. Yet JS claims he saw them both in the Kirtland temple. Wat
Elias is a title given to John the Baptist, as well as an alternate name for Elijah, as well as other people and names and titles I'm sure. There are multiple people with that name/title Mr. Cannon, as there are multiple people named John and Mary. No need to give snarky comments, especially when they are misinformed as yours is.
Sometimes a little homework does wonders Boyd
The Special Status of Noah (Gabriel)
The Prophet Joseph also had some important things to say about the great prophet Noah: “Noah, who is Gabriel … stands next in authority to Adam in the Priesthood; he was called of God to this office, and was the father of all living in this day, and to him was given the dominion.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 157.)
Noah was like a second Adam, the father of all who came after the flood. It is stated in Doctrine and Covenants 27:6–7 that a prophet named Elias holds the keys of “bringing to pass the restoration of all things” in the last days. This Elias is further identified in these verses as the angel who visited Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, and who gave him the promise of a son. (See Luke 1:11–13.) Since Luke identifies this angel as Gabriel (Luke 1:19), and Gabriel is Noah, we conclude that the Elias of Doctrine and Covenants 27 is Noah. [D&C 27] It therefore appears that Noah has a major role, under the direction of Adam, in bringing about the restoration of the gospel in the fulness of times; he therefore has a special relationship with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Elias is simply a title that means forerunner. Like John the baptist and many others and no they weren't the same.
Might want to do some research into Elias again. There's Elias as a forerunner and then Elias and Elijiah the prophet. Even John the Baptist was refered to as Elias. Can't believe how clear the truth can be yet some get wrapped around the axle about a detail they neither understand nor know.
Hahaha. Good point.
I read doctrine and covenant 110 the whole chapter. Imcluding the heading....My understanding is Joseph smith refreferred thesame person elias and elijah is the same person who appeared him (Joseph smith) twice.
This is actually something I've studied recently.
Elis is both a title and a person. Some of the Apostles and Prophets have given their opinions on who Elis that appeared in the Kirtland temple was, Noah, Shem, Melchizedek, and others theories abound.
But the Church has never accepted any of the opinions as fact. So because Elis is a title it could either refer to almost anyone, or it could actually be someone named Elis.
I thought Noah's son Shem was Melchizedek? Was given the name Prince of Salem, Righteous King, one of kingship or royalty - named from the royal line of the Priesthood.
Some people have theorized that.
Really? Are they also the only men to have been named those names. So based on your logic every one named Steven, or Stephen or Esteban are all the same person.
Amazing that JS even thought to include all these figures as to make his claim to be the founder of the one true church all the more legitimate...
It's also the name or reference of John the Baptist. It is also a name and a title. Look it up! That's what the Bible reference is for if you have a copy.
Boyd, Elias is a title, many men hold it including Elijah, and Noah, Moses, and John the Baptist.
In the Kirkland Temple he saw Moses, Elijah and Moses (and more).
Elias is literally the Greek translation of the name Elijah. It's not a title.
It is both. Names were often titles.
Several meanings of the word Elias:
[1] It is the New Testament (Greek) form of Elijah (Hebrew), as in Luke 4:25–26, James 5:17, and Matt. 17:1–4. Elias in these instances can only be the ancient prophet Elijah whose ministry is recorded in 1 and 2 Kings.
[2] Elias is also a title for one who is a forerunner; for example, John the Baptist. Anciently two Eliases were spoken of, one as a preparer and the other a restorer. John was sent to prepare the way for Jesus, Jesus Himself being the Restorer who brought back the gospel and the full Priesthood to the Jews in His day.
[3] The title Elias has also been applied to many others for specific missions or restorative functions that they are to fulfill; for example, John the Revelator.
[4] A man called Elias apparently lived in mortality in the days of Abraham, who committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland (Ohio) Temple on April 3, 1836.
Thus the word Elias has many applications and has been placed upon many persons as a title pertaining to both preparatory and restorative functions. It is evident from the questions they asked that both the Jewish leaders and the disciples of Jesus knew something about the doctrine of Elias, but the fragmentary information in our current Bibles is not sufficient to give an adequate understanding of what was involved in use of the term.
EVERYONE who posted about Elias is "correct" However, Thea gives the most accurate and correct interpretation of the use of the word "Elias" in this context.
Jeremy, great clarification and accurate too. Fairmormon.org gives a good explanation as well regarding that specific subject, along with pretty much every other topic for those that are really wanting to know the truth.
I see Jeremy has not allowed my follow up comment through. Way to control the message! We've always been at war with East Asia.
Well of course he can control it. This is his blog, not a public chat room.
There are a lot of churches that offer many things but the most of all truth. I have read thru the book of Mormon and done history checks on things that Joseph Smith said happened and thru out there is not one story that can be shown as truth. As far as the bible every story can be backed with evidence. Uhmm??
Every story can be backed up with evidence? Please. Where is the evidence of the flood?
I'm sorry but if your belief in God is founded on physical evidence, it will wither away with time. People vehemently try to attack the Bible. Sometimes their words are convincing. The same will happen with the Book of Mormon. Words will be skewed. Things taken out of context (counts for 99% of anti-Mormon rhetoric). If you want to know the truth of a God, of the fact that he cares enough to give men guidance and safety in a world that worsens daily with revelation and prophets, read the Book of Mormon. And pray to God. Go to the source. Stop getting answers from Google and other people that have unfounded hate of the LDS church. Go to the source. Read it with the Bible, they teach in harmony.
Doing otherwise is like going to a Ford dealer to ask about getting the GMC truck you were looking at. I've felt the power of the truth of the Book of Mormon and its words have strengthened my faith that God exists.
Where is the evidence in the flood? It's all around you. Start with the Grand Canyon. There are also thousands of Hydrofountains all around the world. Must I go on?
The Grand Canyon in no way is evidence of a global flood. Sure, it is evidence of millions of years of erosion, but not a global flood. The animals found in Australia are evidence that there was no flood. If all the animals in the world came from a single arc, how did marsupials (among many other unique animals) get to be stranded on an island? Did the kangaroos swim? Don't say there was a land bridge because that area has been thoroughly explored and no such land bridge exists beneath the ocean's surface.
Just FYI, it is a common held belief, by most of us here down under, that Indigenous Australians even arrived by a land bridge so that argument is also flawed. Nice try though.
Bruce, you don't know how science works do you? Do you really think that the grand canyon was formed in 40 days? Ridiculous notion.
Geology is something that takes thousands or millions of years to form. Aside from there not being any evidence in the geological record for a massive world wide flood. The thought of water enveloping all of the land mass on earth is laughable. If you're looking for something more than anecdotal evidence you won't find it.
As anon stated. You need to go directly to the source to find answers.
There is massive amounts of evidence for the flood. Consult "creationscience.com. Researched and written by Walt Brown a scientist with impeccable scientific background. The evidence he presents for the creation of the earth and the flood has been presented to the science community for open challenge. No one will take him up on it. Particularly see his treatment of the formation of the Grand Canyon.
Amen.
I would love solid evidence on David and Goliath, Sampson and Delilah, Jonnah and the whale, and the tower of Babble.
Well the Tower of Babel is easy. It was like 4000 years ago right? Just research how old all the different languages are. They're probably about that old.
This has to be a joke
Why Anonymous?
That is just totally false, many journals record the events and miracles that the Prophet Joseph preformed.
And there are many historical, and archaeological evidences, but the most powerful witness comes from the Holy Spirit.
You are fooling your self.
No one is arguing that journals exist telling of events and miracles in the 1800s. There is no evidence of brass, steel, hundreds of thousands of people died in battle at/near hill cumorah at the end of the BofM. No archeologist has found any evidence of bones, swords, breastplates, helmets anywhere in the US or south America dating from 600BC to 400 AD. That was Anonymous point.
Actually I read an article in a local newspaper in the 70's about researchers finding a battle site over 2500 years old. If I remember the article correctly they estimate over 250,000 dead were left on the battle field. if my memory is correct the battlefield was in southern Oklahoma.
You're wrong Randy. At the hill Cumorah the farmers around the area have found hundreds and hundreds of arrow heads and other artifacts. .In private as well as public collections I have seen numerous sweeps and breastplates and other weapons that came from sacred mounds in states nearby. .people used to scoff at the idea of elephants until they were found that were mentioned in the book of Mormon. .the same thing with cement. .and then that was found. .thousands of miles of the stuff. Better than the cement that we use today. .shall I go on? It keeps going on and on and on about the evidence of the truth in the book of Mormon.
His point was that there is no evidence. The journals from those who witnessed these miraculous events while Joseph Smith was alive are most definitely a form of evidence for those who require that sort of thing to believe in God. Whether more evidence of bones or whatnot exists, who cares? The promise that comes with the Book of Mormon is if it's true you will know after you've read and asked God in all sincerity and intent to act on your answer if it's true. Your answer will come from God throgh the Holy Ghost. What better evidence can an individual have of spiritual truth than a personal witness in your heart from God Himself? There is no other way to gain such convincing evidence. Bones, brass, or anything else has never been enough to convince the entire world of Christ and his infinite Atonement and it won't be enough to convince them that the Book of Mormon is true either.
I feel the Holy Ghost in your words and appreciate that. I was just about to give up on anyone actually speaking with the tongue of angels rather than the tongue of man in these comments. Thank you for that, Jake. I know what you've said is true.
You also have to realize that in the Book of Mormon it talks about the ground being cursed. People buried their treasures and when they went to look for them they could not find them. It also became a problem for people fighting that they even had to sleep with their swords & weapons or else they would disappear. When people were looking for treasure during Joseph Smith's time, as well as himself - it was said that their were treasures to be seen but when they went to dig for them the ground became enchanted and the treasures would move. They could not obtain them. This is some of the problems that got Joseph in trouble in his early years with some of his friends and many of the trumped up charges that never seem to go away that were put against him with the law.
The curses on the land mentioned in the Book of Mormon are not mystical, but caused and executed by man; e.g., thieves, bandits, murderers, organised crime, corruption in high places. The stories that promote mysticism in ancient and recent history are just that, stories passed down by word of mouth. Have you ever played Chinese Whispers, where a phrase is whispered from person to person? It usually ends up different to how it started. Stories of buried treasure that slips further away the more you dig for it are examples of this. Joseph Smith once had employ digging for rumoured buried treasure. While thus employed he urged the activity be stopped, not because the treasure kept slipping away, but it was becoming more and more obvious that there was no buried treasure to begin with.
I can`t deny the Holy Spirit that filled my whole being and pierced my heart, when I was just 7 years old and needed to find answers to my questions, because of something that happened in my life. My testimony has never wavered, and I`m now 81 years old, and I`m grateful every day !
Gerd Gwilliam, thank you for your beautiful testimony!
I'd like a church where the 405 mission presidents don't make over $100,000 a year while grandparents serve in the same mission but as a couple,, sell their house and live on social security.. I'd like a church that values families so much that everyone celebrates the wedding AT the wedding. I like a church that welcomes all questions and encourages research, discussion and debate as the Jews do. Which is curious since mormons claim they are also Jewish yet ignore the honest discussion part. I'd like a church who'd care little for the superficial and lots for those who are hurting.
Mission presidents don't make 100,000 a year. All of their income is personal. NOT from the church. And everyone is welcome at a wedding, if they are but willing to obey the Lord.
Helen, you have been mislead, I to at one point questioned some of the things you have mentioned as a non member. After feeling the power of the Holy Ghost I joined the church and began questioning, discussing, and learning. Do the research, don't listen to what false accusations someone else says. If you think mission presidents make $100,000 a year you are sorely mistaken. If you really want to know the truth, go find a church near you, enter with and open mind, and ask all the questions you want. If you do not want to learn the truth, don't go, do ask, don't read, and continue believing that it is a lie...
Sorry for a few errors, darn autocorrect...
Helen please just make sure your facts are correct... The reason you were probably not encouraged to have an open discussion like the Jewish faith is probably because you use facts to mislead. First they are Jewish not '' Jews'' that is not the proper name. Also my mission president was so wealthy (from independent gain) that he was making money from his job while dedicating his life to the church. They do not get paid to serve that is just a false fact. Also anyone can celebrate the wedding. If you are not worthy to enter the Temple and see the wedding i am sorry. Or if you just don't share the same beliefs then talk to the couple about it. They can have a civil wedding outside and then be sealed in the temple later but let's be honest.. The sealing is all that really matters.
I'm sorry you are hurting...:'( truly
My mission President finished his mission and came home to find that his business had nearly gone bankrupt, his house that he had been renting was basically ruined, so he had to move his family of six to a two room apartment, and to top it off he had just been called as an area seventy (a position in the church where they have regional leadership responsibilities while still being required to stay at home). He had to struggle through this for over a year until he got his business back up and running. Now, I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t have been the case if he was making over 100,000 a year as a mission president. They sacrifice just as all other missionaries do.
Don’t believe everything you read on the internet. Rather, live the Gospel (really live it) and find out the truth of it by the Spirit.
Good comment. You are smart follow.
Helen, Mission Presidents do not get paid an income. Their home in the Mission is Church owned and taken care of. They have a Mission Budget to work from, that takes care of meals for incoming and outgoing Missionaries and travel, as well as fuel and a vehicle. The vehicle furnished to us was small. I purchased two Honda Vans during my 3 years as Mission President. This was on my own, because I felt I needed a bigger vehicle to haul missionary supplies and bikes and what have you, as we traveled. Any personal expenses or personal travel taken was on our own. Like I said, there is a very frugal budget allotment for Mission Presidents. Each Mission is different dependent on the area served. You make it sound like we were called to serve for the dollars involved. Holy Cow, I can't tell you how many personal dollars I spent on missionaries and the mission that wasn't reimbursed. I was fortunate to be retired and was able to use my own dollars to help the mission where I could. Sorry, your Grandparents felt like they got slighted. I think now there is a cap on what a Senior Couple has to pay for rent in any given Mission. If they are in London it may cost 2000.00 or more per month for rent. Senior Couples only have to come up with $500.00 of that. We had many Senior Couples serve in our Mission. I did not hear any complaint from anyone about the cost of serving. They all joined in from time to time with dinners that we provided from our Mission Budget. Being a Mission President was a 24/7 calling. We were always on the run. It was an exhausting opportunity to serve. It was the "hardest fun" we have ever had.
She was stating what happened to his PERSONAL home and business. NOT that the church was paying him. Read it again, you should see that.
The $100,000 a year figure must have come from Eric Johnson's article over at Mormonism Research Ministries, and he estimated that number based on prices of goods and services located in Utah. The number would fluctuate depending on the cost of living in the Mission President's area. The money is compensation for living expenses incurred (including some luxuries such as the service of a gardener/maid, schooling for dependent children up to the undergraduate level, life insurance, gifts during holidays and birthdays, etc.). Depending on the frugality of the mission president, there's a wide margin for how much that actual compensation will be.
The mission presidents have to pay for their missions themselves
Everyday people are not able to go into the Temple and in history never were
And our Church always invites questions and discussion and do not shy away from open debate
Not true at all. Mission presidents receive a living allowance and free housing, among other things. It may not be $100,000 but they do get a living allowance. Please don't spread falsehoods if you don't know the facts.
I used to work for the Church.
Living allowance and being paid 100,000 are different things. Most General authorities are given a living allowance, but their not paid cash to do what ever they want.
After all missionaries get a living allowance.
Missionaries do NOT get a living allowance.. they or their family or their home ward pay into the missionary fund each month for them to go on their mission. The cost for a single missionary to serve is $400 a month. I don't know how much it is for senior married missionaries or Mission Presidents. But I do know that the missionary's family or home ward has paid in to the mission fund for them to be out on their mission. It burns me up when people talk crap about the church when they don't know what they are talking about!
Katie, I recently returned from my mission. It was explained by the SR Missionaries in charge of finances that our Missionary Support Fund (Debt card) was tithing money. The $10,000 ($400 a month) that I saved for my mission did not even cover rent and utilities, let alone the car I drove. We were strictly charged that we would not waste MSF money as it was tithing money.
You can go find the Church where you can attend the wedding, my wife and I had no family or friends at our sealing/marriage where we were married for all time and Eternity. But both families understood the Sacred commitment we were making which has endured for over 43 years and it is something they all respect.
Helen, Mission Presidents receive no salary, but serve just like the poor couple who sold their home. By the way if your experience includes knowing that poor couple ask them why they served. There is no commandment for older couples to make such an offering, but like the widow's mite no greater demonstration of faith can be asked for from that family.
Mormons DON'T claim to be 'Jewish', but PART of Israel--remember? The twelve sons of Israel (Jacob) became known as Israel, and Judah (Jewish nation) and the other split and became two kingdoms (Judah and Israel). Mormons claim to be part of Israel (descendants through one of the twelve tribes)--we do not claim to be Jews or Jewish, as our Jewish brethren and sisters are only ONE of the twelve tribes of Israel.
Sure some churches have part of truth but no doubt that The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints have the fullness of the gospel, restored by TRUE prophet of God.
Jessica,
I love you and miss you. Just in case you are having second thoughts about leaving the church, I thought this letter to the editor of the Daily Herald was pretty good. I do hope you are doing those things that will strengthen your testimony, I really want us to be together as a family.
Love
Dad
My mission President finished his mission and came home to find that his business had nearly gone bankrupt, his house that he had been renting was basically ruined, so he had to move his family of six to a two room apartment, and to top it off he had just been called as an area seventy (a position in the church where they have regional leadership responsibilities while still being required to stay at home). He had to struggle through this for over a year until he got his business back up and running. Now, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have been the case if he was making over 100,000 a year as a mission president.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Rather, live the Gospel (really live it) and find out the truth of it by the Spirit.
I don't care if you are Jewish, Baptist, Hindu, Athiest, or whatever. You can't argue with the fact that the church betters people's lives. If your denomination/philosophy/theology does the same for others, then all power to you.
i wish i had been taught all of the above by ANYONE in the MORMAN church . My mother did not share any of this ,but had us raised with her joining the church and with her us kids joined also. I did keep trying to understand and it was with her friends who went to evangelical churches that i felt loved , and could get questions answered . But when i would go home and share the joy i had felt next week we would have to back to the LDS church . My mother did not attend a lot , she rested in the car while we children were in church . As she got older she started not making us go to church , i think she truly was relieved with not having to get herself and 3 kids to church . No we did not have a father he had died when i was 6 my brother 4 and my sister just short of her second birthday. So again if i had been allowed to hear the above from one of my Bishops or Elders and seen love of God , i would not have left Thomas D Clark
Do not misunderstand me , in my company no one bashes the Mormon church , as I do for the Catholics and the Seventh Day Adventist ,
Yikes. Does the truth matter? Even though the Church provides all the answers listed, it doesn't mean they are true answers. Biblical Christianity is centered on Christ, God in human flesh, and our need as sinful fallen human beings for his redemptive work, and only his work, on our behalf. We can do nothing of ourselves to save ourselves. To God, and God alone, be the glory.
No Mormon who understands our doctrine would argue with that. We believe it is by grace ye are saved.
You are SO wrong Jeremy! Either that or you just don't understand the true meaning of being saved by grace. In the mormon church, if you are not temple recommend worthy, you are not "saved". Being "saved" in the mormon church means you believe you will enter the celestial kingdom because you were worthy enough by being obedient to the commandments, word of wisdom, etc.... by your works. Saved by grace has nothing to do with anything WE CAN DO, but everything to do with WHAT HE and ONLY HE CAN DO. So many dedicated mormons who spent their entire lives dedicating their time and talents to the CHURCH in callings, missions, temple service, etc. end up at the end of the lives, spending their dying days on earth still questioning themselves... wondering if they were worthy enough... if they have done all they could do! How sad for them. This is not being saved by grace. Do you not see how the mormon church has trapped you into diminishing what JESUS did for us. That is not the mindset you have if you know you are saved by GRACE and grace alone. JESUS alone is ENOUGH. Jesus is the ONLY name that matters to me!
False, being saved is entering a Kingdom of Heaven, any of the 3. So by grace all men are saved. Because of Obedience we can receive rewards.
Diminishing what Christ did looks to me more like continuing in sinful behavior after learning his gospel. There is nothing I can do to gain entrance into the kingdom of heaven. Keeping the commandments is not a way to earn salvation, but rather a way to grasp Christ's already outstretched hand. He does not force us to heaven, but we choose to act in faith on his grace and his grace alone. Our form of accepting his grace is obedience to the commandments. I'm not looking for a debate about if you agree with me about the doctrine, but this is what the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints teaches.
I'm not even Mormon any more, and I still get sick of the silly arguments over whether or not Mormons are Christian. They believe in the divinity of Christ. They believe that they are saved through him. Claiming that they must believe in the traditional concept of grace is petty, and insisting you must believe in the trinity to be Christian is asinine. Literally the only reason the trinity is widely accepted as canon is because the roman empire made a power grab in the 4th century. Bottom line, Mormons absolutely are Christian.
I prefer to leave it up to the experts I am sure I would screw it up so here it is.
https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/wilcox-brad_his-grace-is-sufficient/
can you really feel good about entering into Gods kingdom as a repeat and unapologetic sinner? even people that are in addiction CAN be forgiven if they forgive them selves AND are TRYING to live the Gospel.
THE Editor/ Sir Thomas D. CLARK,
For sure all of whar you said are True ! And i am very willing to Help you find A Church where in
All your inquiry has it, and the name of The Church , For All the world to know is THE TRUE CHURCH, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY-SAINTS. WE HAVE A LIVING PROPHET
WHO LEADS THIS TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. I HOPE I CAN HELP THOSE WHO HAVE READ THE TRUTHFULNEES OF YOUR EDITORIAL LETTER GOD BLESS.
As someone who has issues with the current LDS Church structure but believes in the Restoration through Joseph Smith, I find the whole letter to the editor provincial and reflective of a lack of understanding of the reasons people leave the Church. This seems to reflect most members' ignorance of the reasons people leave. I wish members would be willing to have actual conversations with people who are struggling with doubts in the Church. My experience is that most members are unwilling to do so.
This is my favorite comment because it is not angry and closed minded. It addresses many of the thoughts and feelings I've had. Thank you for sharing.
And as soon as that church recognizes that loving one another, fearing not and judging not is more important, is what the Savior actually taught, and deserves much more focus in our lives than any of that exhausting and distracting dogma, I could consider coming back.
The Gospel is true, the members of the church are sinners. That is how it has been from the beginning.
I agree Valerie. Hang in there, you aren't alone.
rhe church teaches that Loving one another is the 2nd greatest commandment the Lord gave us. If we as human beings fall short from it then that falls on us. If you let someone offending you hold you back from those blessings than you are the one who who is losing out not them. The members are sinners the gospel is perfect that's what matters. Anywhere you go you will encounter judgmental people, It is your choice on how you deal with them. I'm sorry someone made you feel that way and hope one day you can make your way back.
I left the church because of how members of the ward we moved into from
a great ward in Calf. we're very judgemental of us and passed rollers around about
us because we came from Calf. and claimed I sold drugs and my kids used them also.
It really hurt me so I left and didn't come back I tell I moved to Tennessee but I know
I hurt my self by falling away because all my kids also fell away I have one who came back
but I know if I had stayed strong they would have stayed in the church. I am so happy to be back in yes the people in the church are far from perfect but dear sister the church is Gods only true church on this earth yes all the church have some truth in them and no don't they love Christ but how beautiful it would be if they would come into Christ true church and bring their love and sprit with them. I also may a convert the church I was Greek Orthodox and they fully believe they are Christ original church. Please don't let you bad feelings from what someone said keep you from your own eternal salvation.
"You and I cannot control the intentions or behavior of other people. However, we do determine how we will act. Please remember that you and I are agents endowed with moral agency, and we can choose not to be offended."
-David A Bednar.
And Nothing Shall Offend Them
General Conference, October 2006
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2006/10/and-nothing-shall-offend-them?lang=eng
I wonder why so many members of the church are judgmental or at least appear to be by so many. It’s one of the main reasons my better half left the church. How can we fix this? I know it starts with us individually, but I wonder why it becomes such a big problem church wide. I realize some geographical areas are worse than others (maybe because of culture?). My personal thoughts why members are judgy is because the church encourages us to help one other and at the same time pushes the importance of obedience. Both are great by themselves, but obedience is a personal choice. I think too many members feel obliged to fix other people. I agree people take offense way to easily and it’s only getting worse, but we can’t point all our fingers at others. How do we create become less judgmental as a church?
Love it! Thanks.
To Valerie: You will never find church members who won't judge because after all they are human and human nature is to judge. It is not the Church that is at fault. It is as much your responsibility as every other member's responsibility to recognize all those things of which you accuse the Church. Those same attributes plagued the Church in Christ's time as well. Look how Christ himself was judged and crucified. It is up to us individually to focus on the good attributes and share them with our neighbors and be the good example, to stop pointing the negative finger at others, to smile at others, to love others no matter what. When we ourselves can do this, we have truly taken on Christ's name and successfully planted ourselves in His Church. It is not the Church's fault because they teach us exactly what you complain against!
We all need to judge circumstances and people in order to determine what to do. However, we are commanded to not "judge unrighteously". People get this scripture wrong a great deal of the time. Same as "money is the root of all evil". Wrong, wrong!! LOVE of money is the root of all evil.
Please add me to your email lists. I like these articles as they answer a lot of questions I have.
Makes me LAUGH! ^_^
As a convert and active member of the church for the last 36 years (since age 17yro) I find the below comments to this article/ blog worth reading. One of the things that initially attracted me to investigate the church was the fact that there were answers to all of my questions and that I agreed with those answers (for they made sense). As I cross referenced the Book of Mormon with the Bible, its teachings clarified many obscure gospel points found in that wonderful book. If there was only one complete "Bible" available to all christians (there are about 1500 + versions incliding full and parts of cannon and apocrypha texts) perhaps we would not have so many Christian churches but we would all belong to the one same church of Jesus Christ. I find it incomprehensible that many call themseves "christians" and yet reject the idea of modern day true prophets (see Amos 3:7) for that is the way that God has always dealt with men and women on this earth even from the time of Adam to this day. The Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is just that, the church of Jesus Christ. We invite all to come unto Christ and to live by his teachings. We invite all other churches and good people of any faith to do the same! The irony is that "we" are the ones who invite people to ask questions (and most of all "ask of God" as found in the Bible's epistle of James 1:5 and in the Book of Mormon's Moroni's 10:4). A principle to live by? Lets be less critical of others and give more service to those in need. Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was criticized and persecuted for speaking the truth plainly why should we receive any less?
This "letter" unfortunately trivializes the incredibly painful experience many people have as they go through the process of leaving the church. I'm still active but can admit that on many occasions have cringed at messages we receive from our leaders. I can't imagine some of the things they say are God's. They are imperfect men in an imperfect world- Men cannot speak for God without the lens through which they view things personally. I wish more people would recognize these good men as simply that...good men- and not prop them up as God's mouthpiece on the earth. I stay because of the incredible closeness I feel to the Savior through my knowledge of Him and my experience with prayer. I stay not because of our church leadership and modern day "prophets" but because of my Savior. My inner battle is not a cheeky comical letter- I gave up a lot to join this church years ago and I give up a lot of my personal feelings now in order to stay.
Dear friend Kimbo, it pains me to hear that you can not longer feel God's love while listening to president Monson or any of the other apostles of our Lord and Savoiur Jesus Christ. I definitely hear and feel His voice and God's love when they speak in His behalf. It puzzles me to hear say that you find your self close to the Saviour (and yes, I live in Australia so I spell His name as the Britts do) and yet cringe at the messages delivered in General Conference. We sustain President Monson, his two counselors and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers and revelators. No body prop these men up but God has chosen them and if you "cringe" at their words then (maybe) you need to ask God as to why you feel this way. I believe that you are hurting and that your feelings are real. I love Jesus and His Gospel and wish I could sit by your side and talk face to face about these "issues". I have felt hurt and alone at times and not all of my prayers have as yet being answered. Life can bring big challenges to all of us. Even Jesus experienced tribulations with his closest friends and loved ones but he came to do Our Heavenly Father's will and so must we. I hope that hope of Israel may be rekindled in your life.
I understand what you mean Kimbo. Especially some of the historical writings of earlier prophets, which sometimes do not hold up as correct or polite under modern scrutiny. Few people besides Jesus wrote words that could be universally accepted throughout the ages. I believe that is one of the greatest strengths of teaching in parables, or analogies, in the fact that they are meant to be interpreted, and often the spirit can lead a person to the interpretation that they need at that very moment. However, despite hearing words and lessons that may sound harsh, judgmental, or even completely different from what you believe is actually right, the modern prophets and apostles often share so much that is good and right and true. Words that can truly uplift you, that make you feel the spirit of the savior that much more. As to this letter, it is written for a different demographic of mormon than you, if there is such a thing. It is supposed to be flippant and prove its point through sarcasm. You are correct that it trivializes the experiences of those who have a difficult time joining the church, having doubts, or leaving. I highly doubt the authors intention was to offend, so much as it was to make a statement about the great things the church has to offer and directly compare it with other churches. This person also seems to be what I'll call a 'lifer' someone who's lived the whole mormon experience, from primary to old age, which offers them different perspectives and opinions, and causes them to dismiss doubts and concerns which they have probably put away long ago.
My Mother is a convert. A lot of my extended family is not LDS.
Great article!!!
Poe's law is getting to me here. I can't tell if this is pro-mormon or anti-mormon.
After reading this comment a few times, I realize that, intentionally or not, this comment is very clever. I immediately think that this letter is obviously pro-mormon, and is using sarcasm and clever comparison to address a controversial issue. And then I wonder if the comment is doing the same thing, whereas before I took it at face value. Fun.
I did leave the church for 27 years. 27 years wasted. I came back and got my blessing restored and now attend the temple regularly. Fulfill my callings. I am sorry I left. I thought I wanted a life in the world. Wanted to be able to have a drink. But found my stomach couldn't handle it. Didn't want to be part of the church. Then I moved out of Utah and that helped.
Great testimony! Each time l feel cheated or intimidated by human falacy of local attitudes and l decided to look for another church, l always find it difficult to leave the Mormon Church for another church, especially when l read about the inspiring words of the living Prophets of the Church who is also the President of the First Presidency of the Church. All the Church Apostles and the Elders who have clamped up the ladder of the Church spiritual herichy teach us something of the Gospel to make us feel fulfilled in the Lord.
ahahah you gonna be kidding me!! 😀 i guess you are not studying the scripture 😀 brother you should keep praying for the answer! try it and you will feel the true 🙂
I loved this and loved reading the comments. I personally need to be better about not judging others. People surprise me all the time. I believe that no matter what religion you are that being a good person and loving one another is the best a person can do.
Way to go Ellie,
You hit it right on the head. Everything that is good comes from God, God is Love. As we accept all that is good, and do our best to forsake the bad, we feel God's Love, and as we serve our brothers and sisters, for we are all God's children, our love grows, for we feel God's Love flow through us to them. Then as we seek the truth, God's promise to us all is found in John 14:21&26.
I'm amazed, I must say. Seldom do I encounter a blog that's
both equally educative and engaging, and let me tell you, you've
hit the nail on the head. The issue is something that too few people are speaking intelligently about.
I'm very happy that I found this during my hunt for something relating to this.
Thank you, Jeremy, for helping me to make a difficult decision. You see, my wife resigned her membership to the church just last week. I had not made up my mind as to whether or not to do so myself until I read this post. But seeing such an arrogant and sarcastic response to people questioning the dogma of the LDS church helped me to see that I really should take that final step and separate myself completely from this organization.
Using his own unsubstantiated beliefs as some sort of gotcha rebuke to rational doubt shows that Mr. Clark understands little about logic, empathy, or Christlike behavior. And the fact that it is such a familiar attitude to anyone who has been a member of the church, and it placed upon a pedestal on sites like this, helps me to know that leaving is not only what I want, but is a matter of choosing the right.
Christ would never condone the sneering derision and self-righteousness of the message in this man's writing, yet the members of the LDS church have no problem using it as some sort of evidence that they are not being fooled, and that those who are leaving its shackles by the thousands are somehow oblivious to the obvious. Rather than act as a physician, this represents the all too common decision to ridicule and deride the honest opinions of those who disagree. This is a group and an attitude of which I will now happily and confidently take my leave.
I don't if I'd put it quite so harshly, but yeah, that was my main problem with the post: assertions treated as though they were arguments.
I'm not sure if a link will be accepted in my comments, but if you go to my blog, I wrote my own reaction to this post and in it I suggested that Mr. Clark may in fact find the Church he's looking for...but in a rather unlikely place...
I read the article. Well written. I then read the posts by a lot of people. The one thing that stood out to me was that almost every single post talked about their relationship with "the church". When I think about ones faith I would think the relationship would be with Christ and the church more as a means to understand and learn more about Christ.
This is what an Apostle has to reply.
"In this discussion of the Church as the body of Christ, we must always bear in mind two things. One, we do not strive for conversion to the Church but to Christ and His gospel, a conversion that is facilitated by the Church.The Book of Mormon expresses it best when it says that the people 'were converted unto the Lord, and were united unto the church of Christ'"
Why do you think you can have a relationship with the Head but not the Body?
I loved it! Very creative! Complete! Made me smile.
Dear Bro Thomas,
Shalom!
I believe if a person is seeking God with all his heart God will do something, because that desire if from Him.
You have mentioned in the early part of your letter about Elijah as predicted by Malachi in chapter 4. I want to introduce to the person that God used that fulfill that Elijah ministry prophesied by Malachi. The world doesnt know that God already sent His messenger, that Elijah and left us a message that will prepare the Bride of Jesus Christ in the Rapture.
If you are interested, i will reply to you immediately and share God's endtime message, His message in our age.
God bless.
Spirit leads me on another path not of men nor angels,
-Simply:
GOD is
&
I am
Interestingly I quit my membership in that church and DID find another church that meets all those qualifications: Christ's Church. It in fact does a better job of many of those teachings and practices, especially temple building and ordinances, Gathering Israel, and remaining true to the prophets and apostles of the restoration, and the doctrines they teach.
By this do you mean the "Church of Christ" denomination?
More of the same. The only religion that knows the real truth. Insulting!
I'm not Mormon, but I don't see why a claim to truth is insulting.
Exactly. If your church does not claim to be true, why would you go to it?
this article makes me laugh a lot.... well on the other hand makes me think more about the church... Joseph smith amazes me.
this article makes me think more about the church.... Joseph amazed me.
sweet...and Amen to what?
Long before I ever know anything about the LDS church, I already looked at right wing Protestant teaching and I already rejected it. This was primarily for the following reasons: (1) their Doctrine of the Trinity, which struck me as un biblical and nonsensical; (2) Their Doctrine of Original Sin, which asks us to blindly accept guilt, without proof, for the transgression of Adam; (3) their contradictory, confusing mixed messages as to whether we possess free will (moral agency) and whether it counts for anything in the process of salvation; and, finally (4) their continual degrading and belittling of the individual (as being "unworthy," "by nature evil," " totally depraved," "miserable sinners," and all the rest of it.) This promotes an attitude of self-loathing or self-degradation. This is unhealthy --especially for young children -- I don't care how "Christian" it is.
Abject Depravity (the doctrine that man is evil, without hope) was introduced by Augustine.
> "Abject Depravity (the doctrine that man is evil, without hope) was introduced by Augustine."
This is not correct. Aside from the witness of Sacred Scripture, there is considerable testimony from the first couple of centuries of the Early Church:
* Epistle of Barnabas
* Ignatius of Antioch
* Justin Martyr
* Clement Of Alexandria
...and many, many more.
There is no scriptural foundations for abject depravity, it was a false idea that had floated around, and was made doctrine by man. Namely Agustine.
The Scriptures teach that we are fallen, but we are still sons and daughters of God, with the potential to become like Him.
Abject depravity teaches that we are evil, and it is always our nature to sin.
Jeremy, what you are calling "abject depravity" isn't quite what historical Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox & Coptic) has taught. It hasn't taught that we are intrinsically evil, but our human nature does incline to sin and we each possess disordered desires (concupiscence) , choosing the lesser good over the greater good. We are out of communion with God and unable to save ourselves: hence the need for a saviour.
As for your assertion about the Early Church, please find the following citations below:
Epistle of Barnabas (A.D. 70): “Learn: before we believed in God, the habitation of our heart was corrupt and weak.”
Ignatius (A.D. 110): “They that are carnal cannot do the things that are spiritual…Nor can the unbelievers do the things of belief.”
Justin Martyr (A.D. 150): “Mankind by Adam fell under death, and the deception of the serpent; we are born sinners…No good thing dwells in us…For neither by nature, nor by human understanding is it possible for me to acquire the knowledge of things so great and so divine, but by the energy of the Divine Spirit…Of ourselves it is impossible to enter the kingdom of God…He has convicted us of the impossibility of our nature to obtain life…Free will has destroyed us; we who were free are become slaves and for our sin are sold…Being pressed down by our sins, we cannot move upward toward God; we are like birds who have wings, but are unable to fly.”
Clement Of Alexandria (A.D. 190): “The soul cannot rise nor fly, nor be lifted up above the things that are on high, without special grace.”
Our doctrine on this topic is as follows.
Mosiah 3:19 "For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father."
We believe that man can become good and holy. Eventually through Christ overcoming our sin that is the huge difference.
> “We believe that man can become good and holy. Eventually through Christ overcoming our sin that is the huge difference.”
I’m not sure which part here you think other Christian denominations would dispute. The Churches which follow apostolic succession would all affirm that man can become holy. In fact, in the Eastern Liturgy the priest comes to the congregation and sings “Holy gifts to holy people!”. The entire purpose of the Sacraments/Mysteries and the ascetical life is to grow in holiness and virtue and overcome sin.
However, (and perhaps this is where you’d disagree), we’re under no delusion that our lives are sinless. An ancient prayer of the Church is “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner” and this is why, in his epistle, St. James exhorts his (Christian) readers to “confess your sins to one another”.
We believe that all men sin. But we also believe that we are literal Children of God. And that through the Atonement we can go from sinner to saint, and from saint to eventually like our Father, just like Christ and how He has become like our Father.
King James Bible 1 John 3:2
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
We believe this verse.
In my last comment I outlined the belief of the Early Church which is also upheld by Catholics, Orthodox and Coptics (and some Protestant groups). I also asked you which part of your statement you think we'd disagree with. I'm not completely clear as to what you're rejecting.
Hey Sasha,
The phrase "right wing" is a political term. I much prefer to use the terms "orthodox" and "heterodox".
Many of the doctrines you say you rejected are found in the Early Church. How do you explain this?
With regards to (3), the Early Church Fathers are clear that (a) we're saved by grace through faith and that (b) that faith is made complete by works done in love.
I'm not quite sure to what you're referring to with regards to (4). Are you talking about Calvinism's Total Depravity? After all, you can't be denying that man is not a sinner in need of saving, right?
This is just the fact. If I can find such too, I will quit but where none is there, then I'm forever a Mormon
This missed the mark about why people quit.
It was satirical
Hi,
I have found the very Church you are looking for, how amazing is that? It is the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. It does all you are seeking and much, much more. You would be confounded by the extreme measures, the Lord has gone through, to be able to provide, such an Heaven Upon Earth.
Best Wishes Mark Morley
Have you tried the Community of Christ? I started attending there last year and have never felt so at home in a church as I do there!
http://www.cofchrist.org
Yes, and this is a satire.
My problem with the community of Christ church is they've denied everything that they started with. BoM, Fist Vision etc.
Love it....im a New member and this article jus touched my beautiful soul oh lord!
Brilliant article But I do know you won't find it . There is only one true Church and you are a member of it. THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS.
We are stuck.
We have no place to go!
There is no other church. It took me ten churches to get to the real one. But this is not to say everything is fine with it; LDS members may be in equal standing spiritually but not socially as RMs are first class (Elite) and there are lower classes for the rest of the members. There is also a very odd campaign to promote elders to select wives who are older than they are. By
design, God made females to mature earlier in life and the Lord made this clear in sctipture: All the couples have an age gap, husband being much older than the wife. See now how many husbands go for a second wife and guess what she is younger than him.
Just a correction, my phone moves my screen not allowing me to see the spelling, I wrote Scripture (BTW, in reference to the best known couples, Mary&Joseph, Rachel&Jacob , Esther&Xerxes, Ruth&Boaz, Sarah&Abraham, and Joseph Smith understood that point as well, bc the biology between the genders is different, like fertility, for woman will change in her 40s for man in his 70s).
There is the real Mormon Church and the breakaway Mormon Church. So let start by stating the real Mormon (The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints), gave up practicing 'polygamy' many years ago. However the breakaway Mormon Church was due to the mother of Joseph Smith wanted another of her sons to be the next prophet after Joseph. However that is not the way the Lord planned it so there was a breakaway! Now sadly you may find it necessary to criticise the breakaway Church, maybe because you have not found the 'true' Church. So sorry to dishearten you but I suggest you delve a little further and find The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, with President Thomas S Monsen as the prophet!
Due to the fact that the breakaway churches have almost no followers, I don't even recognize them normally...Maybe I should do an entire post about them.
That could be a good idea 🙂 lots of people were confused by us and the branch off churches on my mission
Perfectly said. Aren't we just so blessed ?!
The true answer lies with you once you find those answers within a Church of your choice. And once you gained a testimony of the truth, you will never asked again. May you find answers to your prayers and fasting.
I think you have got the right one. There is no other church on planet earth you will find such great involvement and participation. After all, what you have outlined herein and more are not burdening ones. They are add on blessings for yourself in your next life phase. My best advise to youcis stay where you are. I mean with the Mormon church. You can never find a comparable one out there. It will be the gravest mistake in your life to leave what you have already found. If you are an American you should be most proud of yourself as this is the only Church that ever claimed and rightfully say is the the American Religion. The first church ever organized in this America by Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. All and any churches now in America were imported into America. It is just a good point to argue about. The Church Of Jesus Christ Of The Latter Day Saints. Also known as the Mormon Church is the only rightful Religion of America as it is the only Church or Religion that was founded in in America. Stay Where You Are Right Now. Do not look for any other. It will be the worse mistake of your life.
As far as I can see the LDS Church only had one prophet, Joseph Smith. He prophesied in Doctrine and Covenants that Christ would be alive in 1890 and that if he were alive he would see Him. He died in 1844 so he did not see Him, but the prophecy was fulfilled. What have any other Mormon prophets prophecied which was fulfilled?
Three things:
1. Smith did not prophesy that Christ will come by 1890. Smith was promised to see His face by then, if he lived that long, so Smith stated that the Second Coming wouldn't happen ANY SOONER THAN 1890 ( D & C 130:14-17).
2. If you want to see Book of Mormon prophecies fulfilled, then it might help to READ it. There were certain things written that I saw fulfilled on a daily basis when I was out on my mission.
3. All Presidents and Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are prophets. However their credibility of being prophets does hinge on whether Joseph Smith was God's called servant for the Restoration, and the best way to find out the latter is to read the Book of Mormon and then pray with real intent to find out its truthfulness.
Haha what a great article. Noobs the concept of forever families. I'm adopted but love how i can be with my family forever 🙂 love the restored gospel.
if you are a seeker of the thruth then, no need for questioning the book, all of this wiil answered when the time come, only i ifeel good as a member of this CHURCH BECAUSE IT TEACH ME TO BE HUMBLE AND ACCEPT THINGS THAT I CANNOT CHANGE. GOD IS THE AUTHOR AND HE WILL MANIFEST IT BY THEN EVERYTHING, WE BELIEVE ALL THING WE ENDURE ALL THINGS, AND HOPE ALL THINGS IF THERE IS ANY THING VERTIU or love report we seek after this things.
Thank you for sharing these information. Very helpfull for me. Keep updating your blog i'm in love with it.
Also there’s no other church out there that offers free nursery snacks
But overall I agree and love the article, what a way to approach our brethren whom we call anti Mormons
God bless
I am very much impressed of the things that being said in this articles, everything are being well said all the truthfulness of are stated regarding the MORMON CHURCH my eyes are misty upon reading it so impressive containing an seems explaining what the Mormon Church is all about i really loved it...
Yeah... Let’s just say that you are not quitting the church anytime soon. Haha. You will NEVER find what you are looking for. In fact, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the ONLY true church on earth. So... I guess you’re in the right place.
Sorry but ur request is been answered in ur own article..There is no other church that will have all these information and practices except for The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints
The people who want to leave the Church don’t believe in or care about any of the things the person writing this “rebuttal” addresses here. They aren’t leaving for doctrinal reasons; they’re mainly leaving for political ones. The Church refuses to kow tow to secular, progressive, politically correct modern ethics that are popular especially among millennials, and because that generation accepts those ideas as being the morally correct ones, rather than the ones taught in the Gospel, they reject the Church’s moral and by extension spiritual authority. They want a religion that tells them what they want to hear, and the Church doesn’t do that. So they leave. There’s also racism, ageism, and sexism motivating them, as they are horrified by the thought of belonging to a church that will likely forever be run by “old white men”.
It’s very easy to prove the Church is true by comparing it to the criteria for the True Church laid out in scripture, but for someone who couldn’t care less about scripture and is looking not for truth, but convenience and comfort, those arguments will fall on deaf ears.
The spirit of revelation and prophesy that abounds in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints will not be found in another "church". Who could deny the strength of that kind of testimony that comes from personal revelation, though there are those that do...that and priesthood power is what motivates and gives strength to faithful members.
I would just like to ask a question if I may I myself am a member and have read the part of your message that said something to the point of if you are a member you get a free funeral this is the first time I have heard this my three year old granddaughter passed away and mind you my son and daughter in law are members and no one came forward to help at all with anything they paid the entire bill I just am not sure if the churches are being ran the way you believe they aee
Linda Dennis, the phrase "a free funeral" is very misleading. The Church offers its church buildings to members for funeral services use only. Instead of holding the service in a funeral parlor. In no way is the church paying the cost of the casket, flowers, vault, burial plot etc.
Thank you Thomas D. Clark for posting your letter. I have never thought about leaving the church. The society we live in today is written about in the B of M. The people of God are blessed, they get caught up in greed and evil, and then they are forgetting that a loving God has provided all that they have and they become wicked. It pains me to see all of the wickedness around the world. I for one will do all I can to stay faithful to my covenants so I can someday enjoy the presence of my Lord and Savior.
Well said, I agree, and i might add that we have the largest women's organization in the world. All of us are truly sisters in Christ. We love one another as commanded by God. We help each other and anyone else in need. Even to dress sisters for burial. We can sew, cook, mend, babysit, run errands, teach children, counsel troubled teens, lend an ear or a shoulder. Care for elderly or sit with a person ready to pass on. We can be angels but we are human with much to learn. Sinners and imperfect. Due to a hurtful look or wrong word, some choose to leave. I'm not in church for the people even though I care about them. I'm in church for Jesus Christ.
Bravo! You made excellent points and true ones. God requires much from His people which He returns one thousand fold. I am grateful to serve and to be served. Grateful for eternal life, forgiveness and blessings in this life and the life to come.
I like the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints .is true church.
Thank you ,I will not leave this church again, as am solid to these divine RESTORE GOSPEL.,THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. I'M MEMBER FOR LIFE
I enjoyed reading this article. I always thought that certain people were perfect for a certain job or calling. They had to have the looks and faith to have a calling. We are all imperfect. The Prophet and the 12 apostles and 70s are not perfect. Only one is perfect and that is Jesus Christ.
I asked my son why he doesn't like going to church, he replied I don't like the word of wisdom. I don't like the stares that people give me, makes me uncomfortable. I also hear I'm not going because of so so was really rude to me. This shows how imperfect we are. I personally don't like the visiting teachers or home teachers. They stay way too long and way to nosey. I figure if I need something then I will call. Trust is a big issue, I don't trust a lot of people nor do I count on them. I love the way the church helps those of different faiths and is there to help in emergency. I have also heard that the church has all this money, yes they do but do you know how much it cost to send help to people who have Hurricane's, flood and war. They are one of the first person on the ground helping. I have more to say but have run out of time.
If you are looking for a church that pleases men there are many to find in the world. But I hardly doubt you will find one that will only rub you in the right spots and are never going to bother you.
There is a familiar talk: If the Church was and is wrong, JS was not a prophet and the BoM is only (but undoubtedly a wonderful) a phantasy and you followed and adhere to its teaching your whole life long … what will you have lost at the end? You have lived a good life, you have made the world a better place, you have helped countless people, you have held up family values that are essential for a healthy society and you have strived to become better every day. So what have you lost? Nothing. You even and most importantly loved and followed the Savior, something every Christian denomination sees as essential for exaltation.
You may however lost out in the "fun" the world promises you. But even people with no connection to any Christian faith whatsoever feel and know, that this kind of "fun" is floating, empty and not filling. You do not need to be a member of the Church to know this.
Do not get me wrong, such an approach is neither right nor sustaining. We all need to have our own testimony. But for the sake of the argument I find it worth considering.